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RJM · 05-12-2006, 08:20 PM

I wasn't able to attend Sectional Qualifiers, so I sent in a petition for Junior foil and an entry form for Cadet and Junior foil. Christine Simmons emailed me that my appeal has been approved, but I haven't received my confirmation letter yet.

I don't have Cadet points. But I think I read somewhere that if you qualify for Junior you autoqualify for Cadet.

Divisional Qualifiers are tommorrow. Do I need to fence in the cadet qualifying tournament? Or am I an autoqualifier?

It's too late to ask anyone at the USFA. Can anyone out there answer this?

Thanks

bigdawg2121 · 05-12-2006, 09:00 PM

I'd say you should fence in the cadet qualifier. It would be an interesting loophole that allowed you to autoqual based on a petition and if indeed such a loophole exists you pretty much got lucky. If you got lucky you should pay it forward, fence well enough to qualify at your cadet division competition and let someone else take the extra spot. Basically you should fence regardless of what the answer is to your question.

RJM · 05-12-2006, 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigdawg2121

I'd say you should fence in the cadet qualifier. It would be an interesting loophole that allowed you to autoqual based on a petition and if indeed such a loophole exists you pretty much got lucky. If you got lucky you should pay it forward, fence well enough to qualify at your cadet division competition and let someone else take the extra spot. Basically you should fence regardless of what the answer is to your question.

I don't understand. If I fence at the cadet qualifier I will almost certainly qualify, but that will be taking a spot from someone else.

Jareth · 05-12-2006, 09:15 PM

Not so. If you qualify and auto qualify the qualifying spot is moved down a place. Ex. Up to 3rd place qualifies. If you take 1st, 2nd, or 3rd then 4th qualifies.

RJM · 05-12-2006, 09:25 PM

Thanks, I get it now.

If I'm not an autoqualifier, I need to fence to qualify (obviously).

If I am an autoqualifier, they'll skip over me and still qualify 25% with a minimum of 3.

Thanks for your help bigdawg and Jareth.

I just hope I don't have to fence a friend in a DE.

KShan5[PrFC] · 05-14-2006, 05:48 AM

If you have to fence a friend in a DE and you are an auto qualifier you can just drop the bout.... :-P

tbryan · 05-14-2006, 07:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KShan5[PrFC]

If you have to fence a friend in a DE and you are an auto qualifier you can just drop the bout.... :-P

You can, but you and your friend can also be black-carded for it.

Quote:

t. 105. A competitor who...does not fence to his utmost ability, or who profits from a fraudulent agreement with his opponent, may be excluded from the competition.

Compete. Fence your best. It sucks to knock friends out of an event, but it happens all the time. You'll both get used to it.

prototoast · 05-14-2006, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tbryan

You can, but you and your friend can also be black-carded for it.

Compete. Fence your best. It sucks to knock friends out of an event, but it happens all the time. You'll both get used to it.

But if he is an autoqualifier, he can throw the bout without talking with his friend about it, and then only he could be blackcarded, which would have the same result as him throwing the bout so it's a win-win situation.

EricC · 05-14-2006, 01:49 PM

what kind of lameness is this? just go fence your best, like you should.

rac · 05-14-2006, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prototoast

But if he is an autoqualifier, he can throw the bout without talking with his friend about it, and then only he could be blackcarded, which would have the same result as him throwing the bout so it's a win-win situation.

And for God's sake don't announce it on a WWW site!

bigdawg2121 · 05-14-2006, 05:29 PM

Well technically the idea is that fencers that get black carded disappear. So their results and placing shouldn't count for the tournament should they?

tkexi991 · 05-14-2006, 05:52 PM

It's just a bad idea to not fence your best. I've fenced my friends a lot, and honestly - it doesn't feel good when they are taking it easy on me, and it doesn't help me get any better. I think the saying "iron sharpeneth iron" is apropos.

KShan5[PrFC] · 05-14-2006, 07:11 PM

True, but the point of a qualifier is not to get better, it's to qualify. And if you can help a buddy out...why not? I'm not saying you should do it, or you have to do it, but that it's not necessarily a bad thing to drop the bout in this case. Just practice one or two actions on him during the bout and then use it as a practice bout in a competitive situation.

lindajdunn · 05-14-2006, 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KShan5[PrFC]

True, but the point of a qualifier is not to get better, it's to qualify. And if you can help a buddy out...why not? I'm not saying you should do it, or you have to do it, but that it's not necessarily a bad thing to drop the bout in this case. Just practice one or two actions on him during the bout and then use it as a practice bout in a competitive situation.

It's an offense against sportsmanship and a black card offense if you're caught. That's one problem.

It's just plain wrong... that's another problem.

It's unfair to the person who WOULD have qualified had you fenced fairly and your opponent lost.

KShan5[PrFC] · 05-14-2006, 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lindajdunn

It's an offense against sportsmanship and a black card offense if you're caught. That's one problem.

It's just plain wrong... that's another problem.

It's unfair to the person who WOULD have qualified had you fenced fairly and your opponent lost.

Enh.....you're not always fencing to win in a competition. You really could just use it as practice for a few actions. Plus, I'm always down for helping a teammate.

alewive · 05-15-2006, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KShan5[PrFC]

Enh.....you're not always fencing to win in a competition. You really could just use it as practice for a few actions. Plus, I'm always down for helping a teammate.

If you're not going to TRY to fence to win, it's pointless. Just stay home.

KShan5[PrFC] · 05-15-2006, 12:57 PM

That's not actually true at all. I know plenty of people who use local competition as practices because the events that they really care about are NACs, but still use local competitions to practice actions or strategy. Not every small local event is meaningful.

tkexi991 · 05-15-2006, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KShan5[PrFC]

That's not actually true at all. I know plenty of people who use local competition as practices because the events that they really care about are NACs, but still use local competitions to practice actions or strategy. Not every small local event is meaningful.

Fair enough... I hear a lot of Kenyan and Ghanan runners use the local marathons to train for the Boston, Chicago, and other big marathons. That doesn't mean they don't try to win the little ones though, or slow down before the finish line so that one of their buddies can take the medal.

Qualifiers are competitions, and the point is to play to win. If the point was just to qualify, then there wouldn't be a need to fence to a final - you would stop once you had eliminated 75% of the field.

Fencing is a gentleman's sport - but it is still a sport.

Poulet · 05-15-2006, 01:32 PM

Running is SO much different than fencing in this regard that it is laughable that you would compare the two.

tkexi991 · 05-15-2006, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Poulet

Running is SO much different than fencing that it is laughable that you would compare the two in this regard.

I am comparing the sportsmanship element of the two. I would imagine that element would be universal. Or perhaps I am wrong.