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RoninX · 05-09-2006, 05:16 PM

http://www.cnn.com/2006/HEALTH/05/08....ap/index.html

See the story in the above link. Discuss ramifications.

To me it seems that these studies show pretty conclusively that homosexuality is not a choice or learned behavior but is just the way some people are.

Zilverzmurfen · 05-09-2006, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoninX

To me it seems that these studies show pretty conclusively that homosexuality is not a choice or learned behavior but is just the way some people are.

This is not exactly news though.

(Second thought, it might be news to the homophobics...

)

mrbiggs · 05-09-2006, 06:09 PM

Scientists can say whatever they want, but some people just won't beleive it.

RoninX · 05-09-2006, 07:45 PM

Mrbiggs: That is true, however, there are some people who believe things only if they are said by a scientist.

Zilverzmurfen: I agree, no news to most people. But just as people knew things fell to earth before gravity was discovered it is sometimes interesting to know the "why" of things.

RITFencing · 05-09-2006, 07:54 PM

In the words of Galileo Galilei, "E pur se move." Some people can believe whatever they want, but it doesn't change the truth of the matter, which will come to light eventually.

fencingfrog · 05-09-2006, 08:14 PM

there was actually an article about homosexuals in the paper today. it said (actually confirmed) that their brains react differently, so it isn't their fault.

RoninX · 05-09-2006, 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fencingfrog

so it isn't their fault.

Not to pick on you it is exactly this kind of statement that is hopefully marginalized as a result of this kind of research. Even if it was a "choice", who nominate you (again - not meaning to pick) to name others legal choices faults?

bmcfencer · 05-09-2006, 10:07 PM

Though since homosexuality as it exists in our society today is culturally defined by modern thought and therefore ingrained as a concept through the process of enculturation, the idea of "homosexuality" is a learned one. Otherwise we'd just go around thinking people like who they like and sometimes it's someone of the same gender/sex.

Also as "homosexuality" in our society may be said to have its own "culture" that is CERTAINLY learned. No one is born knowing that if you wear rainbows people may think (or,um, realize) that you are attracted to individuals who share your gender or sexual identity. You aren't born knowing the stereotypes or signals or politics of sexual/gender identity.

I think Homosexuality is a learned behavior. Along with Bisexuality, Heterosexuality, and being an obnoxious bigot.

I know no obnoxious bigot babies.

I may know babies who will grow up to realize they like other former babies with similar body parts or gender constructions and who will learn, sadly, that that comes with labels.

Inquartata · 05-10-2006, 05:12 AM

Yes, but if homosexuality is learned, it can be unlearned. Think you could change your preference if only you just wanted to do so badly enough? I dunno...

Probably there are elements of learned behavior, but the foundation has to be deeper than that, I think.

RITFencing · 05-10-2006, 09:38 AM

I really want to know; why is there such concern over who puts what in where? I realize that it is a huge part of our society, and that this study could have large ramifications, but honestly... why do people care what two consenting adults do in the privacy of their own homes?

u r the spoon · 05-10-2006, 09:46 AM

Because they are human. Not that it is right or wrong, but humans sometimes tend to be concerned about others instead of themselves.

Personally and ideally, I agree, it is no one elses business what two consenting adults do privately. But in reality, it is hot gossip. Or, at least it can be.

Of course, it seems that most people posting aren't surprised by the news. Luckily, we are of an open minded set. or at least the homophobes aren't posting. i suppose the title of the thread would prevent them from reading it

PalmFrond · 05-10-2006, 11:12 AM

Don't forget, some people change their sexual orientation at various stages in adult life. Where does this fit into the nature/nurture debate?

RITFencing · 05-10-2006, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PalmFrond

Don't forget, some people change their sexual orientation at various stages in adult life. Where does this fit into the nature/nurture debate?

As the body changes, brain and hormone compositions change. Sounds like nature to me.

MyrddinsPrecint · 05-10-2006, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PalmFrond

Don't forget, some people change their sexual orientation at various stages in adult life. Where does this fit into the nature/nurture debate?

People are psychologically different too. If you've lived in very homophobic environment for 20 years, and suddenly you move to a big city, you're more likely to "come out", even if you've known for years.

furthermore, changes are very easy if you buy into BMC's worldview--- that it all ain't nothing but a label. I'm (right at this moment) closer to "straight" on the kinsey scale than I was one or two years ago at this time, but that doesn't make me straight, make me start claiming straightness, or lead me to believe that it won't "swing back" later. If you don't really care for societies labels, you don't try to force them on yourself, which allows a higher amount of honesty.

personally, i think that the vague position you fill on the kinsey scale is largely physically determined, but how you react to it is largely affected by environmental concerns.

you can easily learn to lie there and "do your duty to the party"... you can easily learn to hate gay culture. you can easily learn all the reasons homosexuality is "wrong", or learn to avoid all stereotypical gay behavior.

It's a lot more difficult to learn how to not notice that person's really hot ass.......

u r the spoon · 05-10-2006, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MyrddinsPrecint

you can easily learn to lie there and "do your duty to the party"... you can easily learn to hate gay culture. you can easily learn all the reasons homosexuality is "wrong", or learn to avoid all stereotypical gay behavior.

It's a lot more difficult to learn how to not notice that person's really hot ass.......

well put. it seems to me that it is not homosexuality that is learned, but that society is taught to hate it.

besides, who wants to learn how NOT to notice that person's really hot ass?

RoninX · 05-10-2006, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by u r the spoon

besides, who wants to learn how NOT to notice that person's really hot ass?

Umm... Clearly you are not married

jk

Morion · 05-10-2006, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoninX

Umm... Clearly you are not married

jk

It is really a matter of APPEARING not to notice.

I may be old and married, but I'm not dead!

u r the spoon · 05-10-2006, 03:15 PM

hey, my sig o gets to check out hot bodies too. the rule is looking is ok, but no touching!

RoninX · 05-10-2006, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by u r the spoon

hey, my sig o gets to check out hot bodies too. the rule is looking is ok, but no touching!

what sig? I see no sig... [looks around in confusion]

oh wait... more talking about stuff outside of F.net... sometimes that is confusing

BrianH · 05-10-2006, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MyrddinsPrecint

personally, i think that the vague position you fill on the kinsey scale is largely physically determined, but how you react to it is largely affected by environmental concerns.

Well put, MP. I suspect, based on my own friendships, that there is also a difference between gay males and lesbians in terms of how the orientation evolves. Thanks for your wise contribution.

Brian