Petitions

[nyacfencing]

As a division board member, I must say that I am SHOCKED by the number of petitions coming in this year... almost all from parents of youth fencers. In almost every case their son or daughter was out of town or at another event... but they are "certain" their child would have otherwise qualified had they been there since they took 57th place at an under-16 event two years ago. In almost all cases, they didn't bother to contact anybody in the division before the event, and in many cases the petitions came in before the qualifiers were even held or immediately after. Your thoughts...?

[bigdawg2121]

Well you're supposed to submit your petition relatively soon after the event so you can't be too upset about the timing. Early and/or immediate petitions are common. As for the question of whether they should be able to fence, the question is pretty much would they have qualified? Anything less than cadet points (or other age group or higher points), or demonstrated excellence at the division or regional level is probably not a great indicator of likely results.

The second question is how much you care, some people would rather let them fence as long as they paid their money. Others would rather see them not clutter up Summer Nationals which is already plenty big enough as it is. Personally I'd leave it up to the national office...if I understand correctly you have the power to say whether you believe they would have qualified or not and that's the end of your part. The rest is up to the office. Be honest and let it sort out itself.

[oiuyt]

I'd just like to chime in agreement with Bigdawg's points.

If someone is skipping qualifiers and I were making the decision on whether or not to accept their appeal I'd look for two things: 1) A good reason for them to miss the qualifier, b) almost overwhelming evidence that they would have qualified had they fenced.

Looking at point (b), I don't mean they could have qualified, or are an equivalent fencer to others that qualified. If one is going to skip the qualifier and still be allowed to the next level, there better be NO doubt in my mind that they would have qualified had they been able to attempt to do so.

And even THAT standard is likely too lenient. As an example, let's say that _I_ had had to miss Sectional Championships (and weren't already qualified for IA). My petition would be very strong. 2 weeks ago I took 12th at a D1 NAC, I'm 30th on the points list, etc., etc. I ended up placing 10th of 36 at the event, and would not have qualified. Now I think that's an exceptional case, but I'd rather make people prove that they belong rather than just give them benefit of the doubt.

-B

[TitanHawk]

I voted for need a good reason. If it was simply "too bad" then there would be no reason for the petition process in the first place.

[Fechter1]

The petition process is in place for a reason, to afford fencers who could not attend the qualifiers a second chance, given the proper season results.

I was actually thinking of skipping my sectionals (Mid-atlantic) for medical reasons (suspected stress fracture or similar problem affecting the Fibia of my back leg). However, my results have been inconsistent since Pittsburgh, so I wasn't certain that my petition would be strong enough.

Fortunately, I had a decent enough day.

My vote: Better have a darn good reason.

[tbryan]

Originally Posted by nyacfencing

or at another event...

If a fencer can fence on the weekend of the qualifier, then he should. If a fencer skips a qualifier to attend some other event, I don't think that their petition would ever be accepted/approved. That would just be silly.

[KD5MDK]

That's covered by the statement somewhere (athlete's handbook?) about NACs on top of Qualifiers. The text as I recall is that while such schedules are not preferred, if they occur, a fencer must decide which they consider more important, and appeals for qualification will not be accepted. I can't imagine any other (non-FIE) event being considered more worthy than a NAC by an appeals committee.

[MyrddinsPrecint]

I think that there may exist an event or two that should be considered by an appeals committee.


I decided not to go to Nationals this year, for a variety of reasons. Had I wanted to go, though, There was no way I would have been able to without petitioning-- I was at Collegiate Club Nationals during div2/3 quals and will be moving out of college during senior sectionals.......

I had been at one of the meetings that the division schedule was discussed at, and Club nationals originally didn't conflict. When the schedule was released (*cough* leaked) and I emailed people in my division, the answer I received was "definatly send the petition" ----- while I did make the decision to fence at Club Nationals rather than qualifiers, I didn't have all that much of a decision to make..... Had I not gone, I would have been letting down my entire team, which would have been a really ****ty thing to do. Most people wouldn't have punished me for "doing the right thing". (they would have punished me for my mediocre fencing : P )


But most of the 17 year olds whose parents fill out the paperwork because their child wanted to go to the open two towns over really did make the choice not to go, and very much had the option not to go. forward them the bit where other events do not constitute grounds for appeal......

[KD5MDK]

Right, I forgot about Club Nationals. My understanding is that if you were at a collegiate event representing your school team, that's considered a valid reason for appeal.

[BraveHardt]

Brad had posted this on another thread. I figured it would also serve the discussion here.

Originally Posted by 2005-06 Athlete's Handbook
The Division scheduled the qualifying competition on the same weekend as an NAC. (Divisions and Sections try to avoid such conflicts but it may not always be possible.) The athlete must decide in which competition (s)he wishes to compete. An appeal will not be approved if the athlete decides to fence in the NAC rather than the qualifying competition.

I agree that there should be a good reason, otherwise you might end up with a stack of petitions and only a small group of fencers at the qualifying event. The qualifiers are held for a reason and fencers should respect that.

[rvergara]

if the petitions are granted on a regular basis, peititioning will become the norm, very few people will show up at qualifiers.
in my opinion, letting things slide leads to people disregard the regulations.

[nyacfencing]

Originally Posted by rvergara

if the petitions are granted on a regular basis, peititioning will become the norm, very few people will show up at qualifiers.
in my opinion, letting things slide leads to people disregard the regulations.

Believe it or not, for one event I have already seen more petitions than there were people who showed up.

My feeling is that people who are decent but not automatics don't want to risk losing at the qualifier, or don't want to bother with their time. So they just don't go and say "Well I WOULD have qualified had I bothered to care".

[rcmatthews]

this is sort of like michelle kwan petitioning to get on the figure skating team.

Bullsh*t

[RoninX]

First, this poll is flawed. IMHO someone had better have both a damn good reason and an ironclad case. The only reason to allow anyone else in is money and money can buy you enough in this sport as is without people pimping out qualifying spots for the extra entry fees.

[oiuyt]

Originally Posted by nyacfencing

Believe it or not, for one event I have already seen more petitions than there were people who showed up.

Yeah, but I'm sure all of them would have made it into the top 25% if they'd shown up...

-B

[hello?]

Can people petition to enter teams?...

[oiuyt]

Originally Posted by hello?

Can people petition to enter teams?...

By people do you mean clubs?

It would be hard to imagine a justification for an entire club to have been unable to field a team to qualifiers. Actually, no, it wouldn't be hard to imagine. I could easily see exceptions being made for, say, a region devastated by natural disaster. I can't think of many other reasons off the top of my head.

Once the club has qualified the club can choose any 3-4 members (that have represented the club in other competition at least once during the current season and are otherwise eligible for US National Championships) to enter as a part of the team at Nationals. The people the club uses to qualify with and the people that actually compete in Atlanta do not have to be the same.

-B

[bigdawg2121]

Teams may not petition. The petition exists only for individuals. I actually asked this question to Christine as part of a discussion a couple weeks ago.