Pacific Coast Section Circuits for 2006-2007

[midi]

The Pacific Coast Section Junior and Senior Circuit tournaments for the 2006-2007 season are posted on the Section website.

http://www.pcsfencing.com

Below the Phoenix Cup information, you can get the links to the tournaments that the Section Officers have approved for each circuit.

Some of the dates are still being worked on, but most of the tournaments early in the season have dates. The pages will be updated in the next few weeks as the circuit tournaments get their dates finalized.

All of the Senior Circuits in 2006-2007 will include competitions in all three weapons. The Sierra Nevada Open and the Boardwalk Open will include veterans competions.

We look forward to participation by fencers from all over in the Pacific Coast Circuit tournaments for 2006-2007.

If you have questions, please feel free to email any officers from

http://pcsfencing.com/Contact/

or reply here, or to me privately.

Midi Cox
Secretary
Pacific Coast Section

[edew]

Midi, need to fix the links for the seniors, the site that the link is directed to gives a "not found" result. At least for the seniors, anyway. And who approved of having the Sierra Nevada event over Rosh Hashanah weekend? Or Yom Kippur for the LBI?

[oiuyt]

Originally Posted by edew

And who approved

Originally Posted by midi

the tournaments that the Section Officers have approved for each circuit.

Seems fairly obvious to me... :)

-B

[oiuyt]

NCAA Regionals are later than normal this coming season (March 10-11). How firm is that NAC date? Without a holiday weekend in the neighborhood it usually is placed on the weekend between NCAA Regionals and Nationals, presumably to avoid conflicts for fencers and referees.

-B

[midi]

Originally Posted by edew

Midi, need to fix the links for the seniors, the site that the link is directed to gives a "not found" result. At least for the seniors, anyway. And who approved of having the Sierra Nevada event over Rosh Hashanah weekend? Or Yom Kippur for the LBI?

Eric, sorry about the link. I rearranged the senior circuit pages and forgot to fix the home page. I have done it now.

As to the LBI, I think you know that they have to get their dates set with CSULB three years in advance and they don't have much flexibility on dates.

The preliminary schedule with all the religious holidays was available to all those proposing cricuit tournaments. Venue availablity is a serious issue for the circuit tournaments.

Midi

[DHCJr]

Originally Posted by edew

And who approved of having the Sierra Nevada event over Rosh Hashanah weekend? Or Yom Kippur for the LBI?

I have been to a Junior Worlds that ran over Easter Week. PCC's is Mother's Day weekend. In years past, LBI has been the same weekend as the Long Beach Marathon, which caused all sorts of problems. DIT was on Super Bowl weekend. Many times Summer Nationals runs over the 4th of July. If you tried to keep away from every significant weekend to someone, there would be no tournaments.

[edew]

Originally Posted by DHCJr

I have been to a Junior Worlds that ran over Easter Week. PCC's is Mother's Day weekend. In years past, LBI has been the same weekend as the Long Beach Marathon, which caused all sorts of problems. DIT was on Super Bowl weekend. Many times Summer Nationals runs over the 4th of July. If you tried to keep away from every significant weekend to someone, there would be no tournaments.

Don, not to disparage the efforts of the SNO and the LBI organizers, but I believe there is a rule in the USFA Ops Manual to avoid hosting events on major religious holidays. Given that two of the three existing PCS circuit events are held on major Jewish holidays, I think a number of fencers belonging to the Jewish religion would be highly upset.

Mother's Day and Superbowl weekend are not major holidays (yet) and there is no specific rule to avoid them.

When I did the Bay Cup schedule, I always asked when the major holidays are (especially because they're not based on a solar calendar, so the dates bounce around +/- 2 weeks or or) and then worked around them.

The major holidays, BTW, are Rosh Hashanah, Yom Kippur, Thanksgiving, Christmas, Passover and Easter. New Year's Day may or may not be considered. While it's not a religious holiday, hosting it on that date may not bring in too many (sober) fencers regardless.

Thanksgiving is also an iffy one. Thanksgiving is on Thursday. Some people might get cabin fever and would love the opportunity to go out and bash some people by the weekend.

[oiuyt]

Originally Posted by edew

Don, not to disparage the efforts of the SNO and the LBI organizers, but I believe there is a rule in the USFA Ops Manual to avoid hosting events on major religious holidays. Given that two of the three existing PCS circuit events are held on major Jewish holidays, I think a number of fencers belonging to the Jewish religion would be highly upset.

Here's what it actually says:

Originally Posted by USFA Ops Manual

Section 2: Qualification criteria
A. For competitions
(1) All qualifying competitions shall conform strictly to the rules governing USFA competitions. Each division, at its discretion, may designate its Divisional Championships as its qualifying competition to the Sectional Championships. The divisions and sections must give at least three weeks notice of the date, time and place of the qualifying competitions.

All qualifying competitions should be scheduled with regard to date, time, and location in such a manner as to prevent undue hardship to members wishing to attend such competitions. They may not be scheduled in conflict with major religious holidays or competitions on the National Calendar in that weapon (such as North American Cup USFA Operation Manual Page 27 2000 Edition Revision 2000.09 competitions). If a division is geographically large, the qualifying competitions should be held on weekends or national holidays.

I don't believe either of the two tournaments mentioned are National Qualifiers, so the above does not apply. The Ops Manual doesn't mention holidays, religious or otherwise, elsewhere.

From the list of reasons for which a petition for qualification will NOT be allowed:

Originally Posted by 2005-06 Athlete's Handbook

The Division scheduled the qualifying competition on the same weekend as an NAC. (Divisions and Sections try to avoid such conflicts but it may not always be possible.) The athlete must decide in which competition (s)he wishes to compete. An appeal will not be approved if the athlete decides to fence in the NAC rather than the qualifying competition.

Which seems to strongly imply that divisions ARE allowed to schedule opposite NACs and that the statement in the Ops Manual is aimed more as a guideline than a hard and fast rule.

The AH doesn't mention holidays anywhere.

Not particularly recent, but in 1997-1998 Yom Kippur was the same weekend as NAC A (Yom Kippur can be anywhere from a couple of weeks prior to the Columbus Day NAC to up to a week or so after).

As I see it effort should be made to try to avoid such conflicts, but I don't see that there's a rule prohibiting them.

-B

[DHCJr]

I would also add that ALL the Orange Coast meets are on Sunday, which causes problems for Mormons. The problem is with Collegiate and High School on Saturdays and trying not to conflict with NAC's, holidays and the like.

Now let me quote from the Division Operating Manual, "USFA rule that you may not schedule any qualifying event on a major religious holiday or an SAT date".

[oiuyt]

Originally Posted by DHCJr

I would also add that ALL the Orange Coast meets are on Sunday, which causes problems for Mormons. The problem is with Collegiate and High School on Saturdays and trying not to conflict with NAC's, holidays and the like.

And Saturdays pose problems with other religions, such as Orthodox Judaism. That's part of why the NCAA Northeast Regional is always held on a Sunday (Yeshiva University in New York). I've known several fencers that had to skip tournaments for this reason.

-B

[prototoast]

Originally Posted by oiuyt

And Saturdays pose problems with other religions, such as Orthodox Judaism. That's part of why the NCAA Northeast Regional is always held on a Sunday (Yeshiva University in New York). I've known several fencers that had to skip tournaments for this reason.

-B

Yeah, seriously--and Yeshiva didn't even send anyone this year. I want my sunday back.

[DHCJr]

Originally Posted by edew

Mother's Day and Superbowl weekend are not major holidays (yet) and there is no specific rule to avoid them.

You don't know my youngest brother, Sports is his religion. He wouldn't miss any of the Professional Basketball, Football or Baseball playoffs or March Madness for ANYTHING. He has a number of friends like that. If he was a fencer, he would of been complaining about DIT scheduling as fervently as any religious person. In fact he was in Las Vegas for Superbowl weekend, took off work for the start of March Madness.

[seak]

That's fine and great for your brother. At the same time I don't consider the superbowl to be the same sort of thing as Yom Kippur, Christmas or Ramadan. As poulet asked earlier (and then pulled) when was the last time you saw a tournament Christmas eve or day?

[Purple Fencer]

Thanks, Midi....I see a few more possible venues for me! Unless Post beats me to them....(the PDO being one I think I have locked up)

[midi]

Sam,

I am glad that this posting motivated you. We do our best to keep the information on the Section website current and useful. The tournaments were all there a week before I posted here.

I really wanted to share widely the circuit tournament schedule so that we can work with our neighbors in an effective way. This is the most effective place to reach beyond the Section mailing list. Fencers, coaches, and club owners from anywhere are welcome to subscribe to the Section's mailing list.
And I know that those irregular emails may not be as attractive as this forum to get your attention.

See you on May 21 at the last of this season's junior circuits at Beverly Hills Fencers' Club.

Midi

Originally Posted by Purple Fencer

Thanks, Midi....I see a few more possible venues for me! Unless Post beats me to them....(the PDO being one I think I have locked up)

[edew]

Since I'm not of any particular religion, I would probably be attending at least the LBI, if not the SNO as well (although back-to-back weekends makes for a tiring week...).

I guess the best thing to do is go atheist.

[teacup]

Since the Pacific Coast Section circuit events are neither qualifiers nor national events giving points, it is the organizers decision whether or not to compete with religious or other events. If attendance is low perhaps they will choose other dates in the future.

There are only so many dates in the year. There are pros and cons to competing with holidays. Those observing their religious traditions may choose not to attend, but for others they may have the day off of work or school so it may be a good date.

By the way, these events are not sanctioned by the section but by the division in which they are held.

[Phaeton]

I'm pretty sure that no one is getting the day off because some 2% of the population isn't going to school or to work. I don't think anyone really cares whether it is the high holy days except Jews.

[edew]

Actually, many communities with a significant jewish population make scholastic accommodations in regards to tests, field trips, class schedules and the like. I mean, by default, Christmas is scheduled around by schools, and many schools put a spring break during Easter. Some school districts put a fall break during the Rosh Hashanah-Yom Kippur holidays.

I went to UPenn as a graduate student and we were required to not schedule exams or even quizzes during those two weeks. Then again, UPenn has a large jewish population.

[seak]

Many school districts in MD close for Yom Kippur, some for Yom Kippur and Rosh Hashanah. I believe the same is true in New York