Pacific Coast Section Circuits for 2006-2007

[edew]

The point is not whether the section is required to not allow events on major holidays, but what is the point of pissing off a whole group of people when the effort really isn't that much harder to find an alternative.

I can understand not accepting the requirement that events cannot be held on Sundays. That would be ludicrous because that ostensibly prevents any events from being held. However, 2 weekends of the year for major Jewish holidays and 2 weekends of the year for major Christian holidays...that's not a big deal and not an insurmountable obstacle.

Usually, when making events, the very first thing to do is check on the date. Don't run events that conflict with some other major event (like the Big Game between Cal and Stanford...duh) in your area. Those dates should have been blacked out before people even submitted the paperwork for holding events.

[oso97]

Usually, when making events, the very first thing to do is check on the date. Don't run events that conflict with some other major event (like the Big Game between Cal and Stanford...duh) in your area. Those dates should have been blacked out before people even submitted the paperwork for holding events.

Actually, a big game weekend can be perfect for hosting a tournament. If its Cal vs Stanford, played at Stanford, then its a great weekend to have something at Cal.

[teacup]

The North American Cup, NAC, in October is scheduled on Columbus Day Weekend which is only a holiday in some states. That Monday is however Canada's Thanksgiving.
Perhaps the bout committee could wish the Canadian fencers Happy Thanksgiving during the morning ceremonies.

[DHCJr]

The point is not whether the section is required to not allow events on major holidays, but what is the point of pissing off a whole group of people when the effort really isn't that much harder to find an alternative.

I can understand not accepting the requirement that events cannot be held on Sundays. That would be ludicrous because that ostensibly prevents any events from being held. However, 2 weekends of the year for major Jewish holidays and 2 weekends of the year for major Christian holidays...that's not a big deal and not an insurmountable obstacle.

Usually, when making events, the very first thing to do is check on the date. Don't run events that conflict with some other major event (like the Big Game between Cal and Stanford...duh) in your area. Those dates should have been blacked out before people even submitted the paperwork for holding events.

I looked at the calendar that was pointed to and I noticed something strange, Yon Kippur is NOT on a weekend for the last 2 years. I also look at LBI and it is NOT scheduled for the time of Yom Kippur.

I am not involved with the schedule and so my knowledge that a Jewish holiday starts on the Sundown before may not be common knowledge. So I wouldn't fault any of the people organizing these as there is no easy way to determine the dates not to use.

The USFA says not to use major religious holidays, period. Well what are those major holidays, what are the dates, when does the day start?

There are a lot more than religious dates to consider. What about Islamic, Hindu, or any others? Having it at Long Beach State, they also have to worry about the academic schedule, Long Beach Marathon, SAT's, NAC's.

It is not easy, which is one reason I am not involved.

[edew]

Actually, a big game weekend can be perfect for hosting a tournament. If its Cal vs Stanford, played at Stanford, then its a great weekend to have something at Cal.

Unfortunately, that wasn't what happened.

[edew]

Donald,

I don't refer to a website, mainly because I never bothered to bookmark any such site. However, I do contact our local religious holiday knowledge base, Michael Pearce's mom. She tells me to what extent scheduling an event on a certain date could or could not be accommodated. (For example, she'll say something like, "could hold an event, but make sure it's done before sundown [so that people can eat before the fasting], and some will complain...")

That gives me some leeway that's a bit more accurate than looking at a website calendar.

[seak]

We're lucky or unlucky enough to have a Minister and a Rabbi's relative on the planning committee. Between them religious issues usually get covered and worked around

[DHCJr]

Donald,

I don't refer to a website, mainly because I never bothered to bookmark any such site. However, I do contact our local religious holiday knowledge base, Michael Pearce's mom. She tells me to what extent scheduling an event on a certain date could or could not be accommodated. (For example, she'll say something like, "could hold an event, but make sure it's done before sundown [so that people can eat before the fasting], and some will complain...")

That gives me some leeway that's a bit more accurate than looking at a website calendar.

That is great for you and I see Seak also has a resource. But what about all the other organizers. Also do you two check with the other religions? What is an organizer to do that doesn't have the resources?

[trazom]

That is great for you and I see Seak also has a resource. But what about all the other organizers. Also do you two check with the other religions? What is an organizer to do that doesn't have the resources?

Well, there's this:
http://www.interfaithcalendar.org/2006.htm

[edew]

That is great for you and I see Seak also has a resource. But what about all the other organizers. Also do you two check with the other religions? What is an organizer to do that doesn't have the resources?

These dates are not secret. If enough people of a certain religion object to having events held on a certain date, that objection can be brought up to the highest level, i.e., USFA national office, and they can black out those dates on their planning calendar for the forseeable future (i.e., before armageddon and the rapture, after which naked fencing with billowy wings and swords made by St. Michael (the StM, I guess) will be made available for the saved; all others be damned to using non-FIE gear that rubs and pulls in all the wrong directions, and no air conditioning while fencing with ancient Prieur boxes and reels in hell). Then, they can forward that information to the sections and divisions along with the national event calendar.

Note that USFA already provide information about SAT dates. While those dates are not always closely adhered to (many divisions run events on SAT weekends), they are there for guidance and it doesn't help much to hold junior events during SAT weekends. Youth (Y14 or lower) events are fine, senior/open or veteran events are fine.

[edew]

We're lucky or unlucky enough to have a Minister and a Rabbi's relative on the planning committee. Between them religious issues usually get covered and worked around

What are you trying to do, start WWIII? It's like oil and water, buddy!

[fencingiraffe]

i think as long as it is a good reason it is ok. defining good reason is hard though. ^^;;; actually i have to petion because i fainted at sectionals on sunday.

[DHCJr]

trazon, thank you that is a good site and I will pass it along for next year. But it does show how hard it is to schedule and not conflict. LBI is planned for late September to early October. Looking at the calendar provided between 23rd of September to the 22 of October, the only weekends that don't have a major religious holiday is the 7-8 or 14-15. The problem is when the Long Beach Marathon dates are announced and when LBI has to have a firm date. We have had a lot of complaints that LBI was the same time as the Marathon 2 times in a row, which made getting to the event a problem. I also know they had to have a date before the Long Beach Marathon date was announced. The Marathon has switched between the 1st and 2nd full weekend of October.

Since I do not participate in the scheduling I don't know for sure, but I feel not conflicting with the Marathon was one of the factors in determining a date. I also know because of the popularity of Vollyball, getting both gyms is very limited. Almost every Orange Coast meet, the large gym is in use by vollyball.

[teacup]

I'm pretty sure that no one is getting the day off because some 2% of the population isn't going to school or to work. I don't think anyone really cares whether it is the high holy days except Jews.

Due to the loss of revenue from high absentism some schools make Yom Kippur a pupil free day. This year the pupil free day is Oct. 2. Perhaps someone from out of town, not observing the Jewish holiday, may choose to attend the LBI if they now have the option of driving or flying home Monday.

[edew]

[...]I also know because of the popularity of Vollyball, getting both gyms is very limited. Almost every Orange Coast meet, the large gym is in use by vollyball.

You guys have the swords. Use them!

[midi]

I have posted the schedule that I am using to get dates in the 2007-2008 season for the Junior and Senior Pacific Coast Championships.

http://www.pcsfencing.com/schedule/psched07.htm

Maybe what you can do is to work with the hosts of tournaments so that they do not choose dates that conflict. As many have noted in this thread, some of the circuit tournaments are taking the date that the venue is available because their resources are not great enough for them to choose a date ahead of other users of the venue.

But if we can work together to get a good schedule, that is better for everyone.

If you can help get venues that have good prices for these tournaments, I am sure that everyone will appreciate your assistance.

If you want to reach an officer of the Pacific Coast Section, use this page:

http://www.pcsfencing.com/Contact

which gives email addresses for all the officers.

Midi

[DHCJr]

I have posted the schedule that I am using to get dates in the 2007-2008 season for the Junior and Senior Pacific Coast Championships.

http://www.pcsfencing.com/schedule/psched07.htm

Midi

Midi, that does help. But there are some dates that are missing and should be added.

Krishna Junmashtami (Hindu) Sept 4
Diwali (Hindu) Nov 9
Birthday of Guru Nanak Dev Sahib (Sikh)
Eid al Adha (Islam)

These are all major religious Holidays for their respective religions.

You also might put down the SAT dates for the 2 and 3 day tournaments.

[midi]

You also might put down the SAT dates for the 2 and 3 day tournaments.

I have requested the SAT and PSAT dates from the College Board. They will be inlucded when I get them.

I might point out that there is another test that nobody ever mentions: the GRE. I know a fencer who had to take it during a NAC. There are only 2 testing dates for the pencil and paper tests in the fall, unlike the SAT where you can take it in the spring of the year before.

Midi

[seak]

yeah but for the GRE's you can take them anytime online at a testing center. The LSAT's on the other hand only have a few testing dates.

[midi]

yeah but for the GRE's you can take them anytime online at a testing center. The LSAT's on the other hand only have a few testing dates.

Some GREs are pencil and paper tests and you cannot take them anytime. If you have to take 2 subject tests, you have 2 dates.