virginia academy of fencing

[Mergs]

Don't confuse service and manufacturing economies; manufacturing quantities enjoy the economy of scale you allude to. Having run several programs I have found that you can seriously affect your program by not charging enough. Yes, quality and cost are tied to perception when dealing with service, so you charge what the market will bear. Ah, capitalism, you gotta love it! If not, go stand in line for your handout and then complain about the service.

As for holding back, I make no bones about who I am or what my opinons are, should I chose to share them. I also can recognize when I am wrestling with a pig. And sometimes it's fun to get dirty along with it; other times not (not calling anyone a pig, it's an analogy, damit). I'm sure there are other club members out there who are monitoring this and I suspect they have opted for the latter option. Their choice and that doesn't mean they don't support their club, it may mean they have an aversion to getting dirty.

And, yes, I am a good soldier and proud of it. Thanks for the recognition.

[emoret]

You should not take "don't want to deal with" as "don't want to cross". Nor should you allow yourself to believe that Alex "feeds" other clubs.

Alex's goal, as any businessman, is to have a monopoly in his market. He is good at promoting VAF to people who are not in the sport. If you google "VA fencing" (just did), the first 2 sites are the division website. The next one is VAF. When you go there, you find a more-or-less well-organized and attractive website. Right at the top it says "World's Largest Fencing School". Who wouldn't want to go there! The next club to show up is the last link on the first page, at least at the moment, and happens to be VA Tech. Some geography for those not living in the area: VAF is a stone's throw South-West of DC. VA Tech is a 4-5 hour drive in the South-West corner of the state. Given the option, I'd sooner take my kid to VAF than drive 4 hours one-way.

Most other coaches in the area ignore him. In terms of volume, he is the largest club. If someone asks nice enough, I'm sure a graph will show up showing local tournament turnout vs. club affiliation. But in terms of percent competitors within the club, its very small. There are a handful of very dedicated students who have done quite well. At one point, VAF was touted as having 1000+ members. That makes his competition fencers about (guesstimating) 2-3% of the total VAF population. The remaining 97% either do classical fencing or treat fencing as an after-school activity.
Many of those competitive fencers frequent other clubs in order to get a higher level of competition out of their practice. Some of them eventually leave VAF.
Some of these fencers leave because of money, others because of personal differences with the approach VAF has taken. At the end of the day, Alex hasn't "fed" another club as much as individuals have "fled" VAF for pastures more suiting to their taste.
Beyond the actual prices he charges, many problems non-VAF (and ex-VAF) people have with Alex is more the ethics side of things. Most, if not all, other clubs in the area do not force you into a legally-binding agreement barring you from fencing with another club. In terms of the USFA, it is very hard to change the club you fence for mid-season outside a life altering event. As a result, his contracts seem like a threat tactic used by someone who is fearful of losing fencers to other clubs. You could ask past VAF fencers their reasons for leaving, and you'll likely get as many responses as there are fencers. Personally, my biggest gripe came a few years ago when a close friend of mine was coaching at VAF. When he asked Alex for a weekend off in order to attend my wedding, he was denied. There were other minor reasons, but this is the one that tipped the hat and lead to him quitting VAF. It would seem to me that, in the world's largest fencing school where you have more than a dozen coaches, you could find someone to cover the second week of a beginners' class for one day.

Again I'll close the same way OIUYT did : visit all the clubs, make your own decision. When you go to VAF, talk to Mason or Mergs. When you go to Olde Town, talk to Joe or Diane. At Dominion, I'd say talk to Ian or Andrew. I'm not sure who you could talk to at CCFC, but I've never met anyone I didn't like from their club. As for DCFC, you can talk to me, Margaurite, Tony, Robbie, Corwin, and a myriad of others. These people will tell you what its like to fence there. Then talk to the coaches. Pick the one you feel matches your personality the best and where you feel the most comfortable.

[chefencer]

Our club is on the opposite end of the spectrum to VAF (non-profit, 0 employees), but on the same side of the country. At the risk of being pummeled by the Cadre of Fencing Economists from the politics forum, I would venture to describe the Academy as a luxury good in an area where the median house price is in the $300k’s (vs 120k national) and average income is $85k (according to local realtors). I certainly admire the business sense of the owners for their choice of location, marketing strategy and brand identity. It is run as an upscale health club/YMCA for upscale people and offers services like summer camp and after school programs to fill the needs of this demographic, but at prices they’ll understand. The Wal-Mart model doesn’t fit their lifestyle. That’s why it brands itself as “The World’s Largest Fencing School” – you don’t sell to that market on the cheap because some of the customer’s perceived value comes from the price itself. It’s a combination of movie theatre popcorn prices (for location) and white tablecloth restaurant wine prices (there’s a premium on the experience/luxury/exclusivity). In Econ 101 (if I can remember that far back) I believe it was called ‘snob appeal’ (with no disrespect intended) which is concomitantly one of the traditional images of our beloved sport. They do offer tournament opportunities to the region, but frankly they have enough members to run club tourneys w/over 100 entrants – so who needs the USFA? I was at first surprised by a recent $45 youth comp, but it would mean no travel (hello gas $) and no hotel, so $45 starts to look better…

As to the quantity/quality debate: More milk means More cream…

[seak]

If you are an adult and looking for a small adult club that will teach you the basics, has some good fencers, and will provide you with some socialization you could check out NIH. Most of the top level fencers are sabre, but they have a growing foil population, and its mostly adults.

edit: I also like DCFC, CCFC (though I've never had occasion to fence there), Dominion, Old Towne etc as clubs. I was merely throwing out another option. As for VAF I know some nice people from there, and I've heard some good and some bad things. I would visit all of them.

[IanSerotkin]

I'll just add that the DC/VA fencing community, despite all its warts and warbles, is by and large the most close-knit fencing community I've been a part of in my twelve years of bouncing between wildly different geographic fencing locales. There are exceptions, of course, and a generous helping of good-natured ribbing to go with it, but that's usually the extent of it.

I think we've seen--on this board, as well as others--what happens when someone starts a NYC or TX club pissing contest, and it speaks volumes about the character of 99% of the fencers in the region that this thread resembles a philosophical economics debate more than it does a shouting match.

jokerjoe: You'll probably be happy with just about any club you pick in the area.

[occasionalfencer]

As for DCFC, you can talk to me, Margaurite, Tony, Robbie, Corwin, and a myriad of others. These people will tell you what its like to fence there.

Or to Corwin's mom, who doesn't actually fence much but has seen a whole lot of the club.

Corwin's mom

[Army Fencer]

Originally Posted by occasionalfence

As for DCFC, you can talk to me, Margaurite, Tony, Robbie, Corwin, and a myriad of others. These people will tell you what its like to fence there.

Or to Corwin's mom, who doesn't actually fence much but has seen a whole lot of the club.

Corwin's mom

Hi Becky!

[ravlik]

To Mergs

Originally Posted by Mergs

Yes, quality and cost are tied to perception when dealing with service, so you charge what the market will bear. Ah, capitalism, you gotta love it! If not, go stand in line for your handout and then complain about the service.

I do not see any real market from producer side. What I have now is very close to standing in line and complaining about .. not the service …and even not the prices … but the luck of reasons to defend my club. I do not have much options, all listed clubs are beyond reasonable travel time for a not geek. Fairfax fencers may be the only one in reach. BTW could anybody here to say something about this club?

Originally Posted by Mergs

I'm sure there are other club members out there who are monitoring this and I suspect they have opted for the latter option. Their choice and that doesn't mean they don't support their club, it may mean they have an aversion to getting dirty.

I confess I tried to be a bit provocative… I wanted to see somebody defending the club in a “shouting way” not the principles of capitalism …Do not take it for an effort to get dirty, though (confessing again) I like gossips

[Mergs]

Originally Posted by ravlik

I wanted to see somebody defending the club in a “shouting way” not the principles of capitalism …Do not take it for an effort to get dirty, though (confessing again) I like gossips

Ain't happenin'. Sorry to disappoint.

[Potemkin]

Originally Posted by ravlik

I do not have much options, all listed clubs are beyond reasonable travel time for a not geek. Fairfax fencers may be the only one in reach. BTW could anybody here to say something about this club?

Ravlik,

I have been fencing at Fairfax Fencers for a few years. What would you like to know? If you have a chance to come by on a weekend morning or weekday evening, go ahead and come over. Your first lesson at the club is free so you can see what the club is like (or what fencing is like if you have not fenced before).

Potemkin

[sabreman]

Here is a link with more info on the NIH FC.

http://www.recgov.org/r&w/nihfence/

[ravlik]

Thank you for invitation, Potemkin. I will sure pay a visit to your club (details by email).
Thank you all for suggestions.

[Happy Feat]

The model Alex has created is the future of fencing clubs in America...unfortunately. Look at the growth of Karate clubs in the US. Target the affluent suburbs. Provide after school programs/babysitting. Only sell lessons/memberships by the year. Set up automatic credit card withdrawal programs. I believe Alex has set up his own credit bureau...

[chefencer]

Originally Posted by Happy Feat

The model Alex has created is the future of fencing clubs in America...unfortunately. Look at the growth of Karate clubs in the US. Target the affluent suburbs. Provide after school programs/babysitting. Only sell lessons/memberships by the year. Set up automatic credit card withdrawal programs. I believe Alex has set up his own credit bureau...

I agree 100%... but business is business, baby. There's nothing wrong with fulfilling a market need and there are worse problems in fencing then having too many people with too much money at a club. What's wrong with fencing taking a cue from the health club industry? We have to use whatever successful models are available. In this country, if it makes money, they will come: attention and investment are mouth-watering words for the poor downtrodden fencers wandering in the desert of sports obscurity for the last 100 years or so...

[edew]

I'm just wondering what it is with coaches named Alex?

[chefencer]

Originally Posted by edew

I'm just wondering what it is with coaches named Alex?

I think that brings us back to the accents...

[oiuyt]

Originally Posted by edew

I'm just wondering what it is with coaches named Alex?

Could it be that it's just a very common name both in the US and in much of the former Soviet-controlled area of the world?

Blame Iskander for taking Phillip's armies from the Peloponnesian Peninsula to the Punjab 2300 years ago.

-B

[chefencer]

Originally Posted by oiuyt

Could it be that it's just a very common name both in the US and in much of the former Soviet-controlled area of the world?

Blame Iskander for taking Phillip's armies from the Peloponnesian Peninsula to the Punjab 2300 years ago.

-B

HaaHAaHaaaaa!
Nice!

[Happy Feat]

<Fairfax fencers may be the only one in reach. BTW could anybody here to say something about this club?>

Fx Fencing: Nice facility, totally dedicated to fencing. Building is owned by the Fencing Master, Tom (who is definitely not in it for the $s). Two permanent electric strips, four total. It is open 7 days a week; evenings M-F and mornings/early afternoons on Sat & Sun. They have a standard open tournament the second Friday evening of every month; one month is for kids/next month for adults (tomorrow night's tournament is for kids). They also run a couple weeks of kids camp in the summer. They have a couple decent foil and epee coaches, in addition to Tom. Plus added bonus, the salle is decorated wall-to-wall with years worth of old fencing memorabilia. (Tom obviously has a serious addiction to ebay!)