Fencing with knee bursitis

[lindajdunn]

I'm sitting with my leg propped up on my desk and a bag of frozen peas on my knee. Wednesday, my doctor told me I had bursitis and in looking back, I realize I've had this at least a month. Thus, I'm getting a late start on the recovery process.

My first warning was itching and swelling and since it was the beginning of the gardening season and I had spotted poison ivy plants, I figured this was the source. Now I'm looking at how to make a quick and permanent recovery and avoid future such occurrences.

I do not know if fencing caused this or if it was gardening (I moved at least 7 yards of mulch uphill -- both ways, yeah -- and twisted my left knee more than a few times right before the swelling and itchiness started.

What do other veteran fencers do to (1) avoid such injuries, (2) recognize them quickly, and (3) recover in time for a tournament at the end of the week. Yes, I'm being impossibly optomistic.

And I've seen a doctor and he's given me a prescription for anti-inflamatory pills. As I have a tooth problem, the dentist has me on antiboditics. I figure this should be sufficient but I had been fortunate before in having very good legs and I hate like heck to lose this advantage.

I've got a gym membership where they have a hot tub and a swimming pool that I had never used before. I do not enjoy the water but I'm willing to do darn near anything legal to get my knee back into shape.

I've never been able to swim and yes, I've taken lessons. I also nearly drowned once. [Not during lessons.]

Suggestions? I have searched through the archives and copied the recommendation for some supplements that I'll be picking up later today. Glucosamine sulfate. Omega-3 oils. Proteolytic enzymes. Hope WalMart carries this stuff.

[penguin_2000]

Originally Posted by lindajdunn

I've got a gym membership where they have a hot tub and a swimming pool that I had never used before. I do not enjoy the water but I'm willing to do darn near anything legal to get my knee back into shape.

I've never been able to swim and yes, I've taken lessons. I also nearly drowned once. [Not during lessons.]

Suggestions? I have searched through the archives and copied the recommendation for some supplements that I'll be picking up later today. Glucosamine sulfate. Omega-3 oils. Proteolytic enzymes. Hope WalMart carries this stuff.

While those supplements may not hurt, they probably won't help (but they do cost a bit of $$). What you need is a steroid to reduce the swelling.

About the swimming, if you can't swim, you can still use one of the "kick-boards." I absolutely suck at swimming but can use one of those kickboards to keep me afloat while I flail around with my legs.

[JasminaJ]

Hi Linda! We met in Reno at NACs in women's vet saber.
I think very best thing you can do for yourself is see a sports medicine
doctor, or better yet a sports medicine orthopaedist. Then explain that you would prefer not to have surgery except as a last resort. Most often the surgery option is attractive to people who want to fix everything. Surgery has long term effects. Physical therapy is hard work but the results are very good for most people. I hope you will consider this, as I see you as a person with longevity in the sport. And success! Good Luck!

[bezoar]

Rest is the key. I disagee with some of the above posts to some extent. NSAID's are quite appropriate for bursitis. Steroids are effective but not without risks and side effects. I would use those as a last resort.

I also don't think you need a sports medicine specialist or orthopedist. Your primary care physician is trained for cases such as these. If you don't respond to therapy, you can ask for a specialty referral later. Why run up your expenses and the cost of medicine in general?

You can still make use of the pool even if you can't swim. Kickboards as mentioned before are great. Continue icing (heat really does't have a role here). Listen to your body, when you hurt, stop.

[lindajdunn]

Thanks to everyone who replied. I have another appoint with the doctor tonight because the antiboditics prescribed for a dental problem and the medicine prescribed for the knee have given me a third problem. Hopefully, there will be another solution offered.

In the meantime, I've been resting the knee as much as possible and icing it daily.

[lindajdunn]

Now I need to know if anyone has any purely natural suggestions for speeding recovery from bursitis.

The prescription NSAI medicine I was taking had some undesired side effects. In a nutshell, I can no longer eat solid foods. Or even bananas. I'm not anxious to try medicine again... at least, not until I clear up all the damage from the current situation.

I'm using frozen peas to ice the knee as frequently as possible, elevating the knee whenever possible, and trying to find some way to rest it as much as possible while still going to fencing practice and taking two lessons a week.

The knee is not nearly as swollen as it was but I still can't squat and there's no power in my lunge (this is the rear knee).

Did I mention I'm 53 and female and this is the first time I've ever had problems with a knee?

And no, I'm not overweight.

[lindajdunn]

Originally Posted by JasminaJ

Hi Linda! We met in Reno at NACs in women's vet saber.
I think very best thing you can do for yourself is see a sports medicine
doctor, or better yet a sports medicine orthopaedist. Then explain that you would prefer not to have surgery except as a last resort. Most often the surgery option is attractive to people who want to fix everything. Surgery has long term effects. Physical therapy is hard work but the results are very good for most people. I hope you will consider this, as I see you as a person with longevity in the sport. And success! Good Luck!

I'm a little hesitant to try steroids as my father had bursitis from an old basketball injury and steroids had some negative side effects for him. Given that I'm dealing with side effects from other medications at the moment, I'm wanting to push that off until there's no other possible solution.

And it's good to see you again even if just virtually.

[JayhawkPawn]

There are a few things in your body that you caqn rush, cuts, bumps, bruises, concussions (But only for hockey players.). Knees, backs, and joints in general, CANNOT be rushed. If you do not take your time to let it heal, it will plague you forever. I'm in my early twenties, and I've already been through three knee surgeries, the last one a partial patellar reconstruction. all of them came about because I was too dumb to let them heal properly. You need lots of rest, physical therapy, and lots of self-restraint. Glucosamine sulfate does nothing, there are many people that reccomend it, but you're better off taking a sugar pill from a bottle marked "Super happy fun time magical knee heal pill." Anyhow, hope that helps!

[Teme]

There are times when 'rest' means 'no fencing, either'.

[swordwench]

Ahh, bursitis of the knee. Yep, I've been there, and yep, I'm a vet as well. Since one half of the equation is out for you (the NSAIDs), the only one remaining is rest. Take very seriously what Teme just said. Maybe spend some time directing instead. The bursitis is an inflammation, and alas for you, it's on your knee - kind of hard to avoid using your knees on the strip. The only way you're going to relieve it without outside help is to stay off it. And no squats! Keep icing it even if you hate doing it.

If I had followed this sage advice - which also came from my doctor - it wouldn't have taken me a solid year to get over it. It would have taken a few weeks. But noooo... I couldn't do without fencing... So it dragged on and on. I won't be so stupid next time. It seems the older we get, the more long-term our injuries are, so I'm trying to listen to the docs now when they tell me what to do.

So, steroid injection isn't an option? Best of luck healing!

[FencingKitten]

Ah, knee bursitis. I have terrified several opponents by collapsing out of a lunge, instead of recovering, as the pain in my knees explodes.

Specifically, I find that ibuprofen (advil, for me) has been a huge help - anti-inflammatory, as you were prescribed. I don't ice, it doesn't help my knees at all, and bracing does help for me. I wear a heavy duty brace on my off leg, and a neoprene one on my weapon leg, and they help to support the joints some, as well as keeping them warm and reminding me not to do stupid things. Don't let the muscles around the knee go to hell - when you're not having knee problems, low impact workouts to keep those muscles in shape help keep the problems from reoccuring, for me, since the muscles also help support the joint.

Just a few things I've been told, figured out, or had forced on me while dealing with this. Hope it helps, and props to you for making it so far without having to deal with it!

[Peach]

Do a whole lot of stationary practice--"stool fencing"--where you don't move at all or you are only allowed advances, retreats, and half staps. Develop your stationary game--line, false line/riposte, stop-hit, counter-attack, attack in preparation, feint-in-tempo, counter-time. Do hand drills. Take lessons sitting down. When I had a torn calf I developed some wonderful actions that really improved my game. Fencing, especially in the veterans, is a tactical sport, and this is a wonderful opportunity to work on that. You will relax your shoulder when you have no alternative.

Ibuprofen used to be my friend, but it's a bad friend. The last year or so, whenever I take it I get bruises in my finger joints.

[lindajdunn]

Yes... I couldn't resist fencing this last weekend. We had a tournament planned and I'm still Unrated. I've barely missed earning an E a half dozen times now and came in second in a 13 fencer tournament right before realizing I had a knee problem.

In fact, I went to the ER the night before the competition because I was seriously dehydrated and couldn't swallow more than an eyedropper of liquid at a time.

I fenced women's sabre because otherwise there would have been only 5 competitors (3 had dropped out) and one person had driven two hours soley for a shot at an E. Somewhere during the competition, competitiveness kicked in and I found it impossible to take it easy. More, I didn't WANT to. After all, I'm still a U. I've been chasing an E and coming close for half a season now and I'm tired of watching it slip away.

I finished second. Lost the final bout 14-15.

I've stayed off my feet, elevated the knee, and iced it frequently since then. It's still swollen on the inside of the knee. The other side is back to normal.

[lindajdunn]

Originally Posted by Peach

Do a whole lot of stationary practice--"stool fencing"--where you don't move at all or you are only allowed advances, retreats, and half staps. Develop your stationary game--line, false line/riposte, stop-hit, counter-attack, attack in preparation, feint-in-tempo, counter-time. Do hand drills.

I can find loads of footwork drills. However, when I Google on "hand drills" I find wonderful tools. [grin]

I'll check with our coach later but in the meantime, have any suggestions for good hand drills? Or maybe I should start a new thread on hand drills/stationary drills.

[Peach]

Sit on a (fairly high) stool facing another fencer. The other fencer may move, but you may not. Possible drills:

1. "clockwork" drills with known actions, designed just to make the arm relaxed and the parries and cuts correct. For instance, head-head, flank-flank, chest-chest (or any other combination). These must be done with correct form, though, or they are a waste of time and just teach predictable reactions.
2. delayed drills, designed to relax the arm and improve ability to see: take turns cutting to head, chest, or flank, but leave the arm out, relaxed in full extension, until the last possible minute, then take the parry as the other fencer ripostes. Then hold your parry as the other fencer leaves the arm out.
3. mobile fencer may make straight attack with double advance lunge. Static fencer may make counter-attack, parry, or false counter-attack/parry riposte.
4. press-press - put blades in engagement (four or tierce) and press back and forth. When one partner puts pressure on the blade, cut over (or disengage) and hit. Teaches sentiment du fer.
5. tac-o-tac (or some such name). Beat-extend, partner beats and extends. Continue. Vary with counter-beats and disengages. If done correctly, teaches light, crisp beats and relaxed, immediate extension. Vary with one partner making a series of beats on both sides of the blade, with the other partner attempting to duplicate the series exactly (makes hand more relaxed, actions smaller).

I probably have these wrong because I'm doing them from memory.

[lindajdunn]

Originally Posted by Peach

Sit on a (fairly high) stool facing another fencer. The other fencer may move, but you may not. Possible drills:

[snip]

I probably have these wrong because I'm doing them from memory.

Thanks. I've saved these and what I don't know how to do, I'm going to ask about at practice.

[lindajdunn]

Update: It's a hamstring injury, folks.

Yes, I have bursitis on my left knee. However, I got a referral to physical therapy and it seems that the pain issue is from a hamstring injury. Now that it's pointed out to me, I can remember when and where I first felt that nasty knife-slashing feel across the back of my leg during a lunge and it wasn't recently.

So I've got two injuries to heal before the nationals.

It's a chicken or egg thing, but I am fairly certain that the hamstring caused the bursitis rather than vice versa. Why? Because the hamstring injury was first by several weeks.

Next time, I pay more attention to my body when it uses pain to get my attention.

[Peach]

Originally Posted by lindajdunn

Update: It's a hamstring injury, folks.

My condolences. That stinks. Baby it, but keep yourself moderately mobile. Fence as conservatively as you can and practice doing the things that don't hurt so you can use them in competition. At nationals, get the trainers to tape whatever needs taping (after they finish making fun of me they have been VERY helpful and they really know how to keep you going).

Originally Posted by lindajdunn

Next time, I pay more attention to my body when it uses pain to get my attention.

That's the veteran theme song!!!!!! Also:

That which does not kill me, gives me overuse injuries.
No pain, no physical therapy.
Don't run through the pain--Run away from the pain.

However:

Pain is nature's way of telling you you're not dead yet.
A little exercise is WAY better than no exercise.
Growing older is not for sissies.
Showing up is the best revenge.

But:

"Doctor, it hurts when I do this!"
"Then stop doing that."

[Goldgar]

Originally Posted by Peach

Also:

That which does not kill me, gives me overuse injuries.
No pain, no physical therapy.
Don't run through the pain--Run away from the pain.

However:

Pain is nature's way of telling you you're not dead yet.
A little exercise is WAY better than no exercise.
Growing older is not for sissies.
Showing up is the best revenge.

But:

"Doctor, it hurts when I do this!"
"Then stop doing that."

LOL!
That list eliminates the need for about 10 possible replies to this thread.

[lindajdunn]

LOL!

I need to save some of those and tape them to my mirror.