Improving the retention rate from beginning classes

[lindajdunn]

I've noticed at the club that we might have 10 people start a beginner class and one continue through the advanced. The sizes of the classes vary, the ages vary, and there have been times when half the class continued and times when no one continued. Is this consistent with other clubs? Is there a way to improve the retention rate?

Just curious. I'm merely a member, not a person in charge, but we were discussing this last night and I wondered if anyone else had encountered this and had some suggestions to offer.

[Padawan]

what weapon are you teaching in the class and what are you offering in the advance class?

[lindajdunn]

Originally Posted by Padawan

what weapon are you teaching in the class and what are you offering in the advance class?

Sabre. For various uninteresting reasons, we don't have the resources at this time to offer lessons in other weapons.

[Allen Evans]

Many things effect retention rates in beginning classes.

Who are your beginners? Are they younger adults looking for something new to try? Kids looking to "fight with swords"? Retirees who want to be Errol Flynn? The club needs to asses who is in class, and why, and play to that group, or, at least, the largest segment of the class. Classes fail when they don’t meet the needs or the expectations of the people who signed up for them.

Who is teaching your class? Often the job of teaching classes at a club is not well thought out. It is often shoved onto a fencer who has some free time, and some willingness to teach (“Anyone can teach beginners”). The beginning classes are the first impressions the club gives new members. The club’s BEST teacher should be teaching that class. This may not be the best fencer at your club, or even your best coach. One of the clubs I used to teach at swapped out their competitive foil coach with a relatively inexperienced fencer. The new teacher had taught school for a number of years, and knew the basics of fencing, but not much more. She was a huge success with classes, because she realized her job was to get students excited about fencing and about being at club, and not turn them into champions.

It’s also helpful if there is a good ratio of teachers to students. Adding an extra set of hands and eyes to even a small class does a lot for retention. People need to feel that they can get their questions answered, and get help when they need it. It’s a good job for friendly intermediate and advanced students who want a break on their club dues, and are willing to take direction from the class instructor.

Is there a learning progression for new students? No one wants to fence for six weeks in a beginning class and then be told that their next step is to free-fence at a club with a lot of strong fencers. For most people, it is too intimidating. Beginners should always have at least one or two more classes in a progression (“intermediate”, “advanced”, and so forth). This not only eases their transition in to fencing, it also gives them more time to integrate themselves into club, and increase the chances of them staying.

Even with all of this, retention rates can still be low. Salle Auriol, my last club, did most, if not all of these things with a large number of classes, and we still often lost 30-50 percent of a beginner class. Even so, this resulted in a huge growth at the club while I was there, from 5-10 members to over 120 members in six years. With that success, other problems will arise!

[parrythis]

We have noticed that there seems to be an "intimidation factor" for fencers graduating from one level to the next - particularly when graduating to the "open fencing" level. With the exception of a few, they are afraid to move up to the next level and look like fools.

We've done a couple of things to help them out.

First, we tried a "mentoring" program, in which "open fencing" fencers would visit the intermediate classes and interact and fence with the students. This would show them that the "open" fencers were friendly, willing to help, and not that judgemental. This had some success.

Second, we now leave the door open for the students to continue with their "intermediate" classes as long as they want. When they get good enough, they are encouraged to participate with the "open" fencers, but are not forced to do so and continue to have the option of taking "intermediate" level courses as long as they feel the need to do so.

Since doing the later, we are seeing a significant improvement in the number of people that are willing to venture into the "open fencing" level.

[Durando]

Originally Posted by lindajdunn

I'm merely a member, not a person in charge, but we were discussing this last night and I wondered if anyone else had encountered this and had some suggestions to offer.

What the French call "conviviality" matters a whole lot. We frequently have a few drinks in the salle after practice. Much more agreeable way of conveying regional news, giving tactical insight, talking trash, etc. Just throw out some cheap wine, beer, and fruit juice for the kiddies.

[chefencer]

Originally Posted by Durando

What the French call "conviviality" matters a whole lot. We frequently have a few drinks in the salle after practice. Much more agreeable way of conveying regional news, giving tactical insight, talking trash, etc. Just throw out some cheap wine, beer, and fruit juice for the kiddies.

Good idea, and how very French! Should also encourage people to stay the whole time instead of bolting as soon as the lesson's over.

[Greg]

[quote=Allen Evans]Many things effect retention rates in beginning classes.

Who is teaching your class? Often the job of teaching classes at a club is not well thought out. It is often shoved onto a fencer who has some free time, and some willingness to teach (“Anyone can teach beginners”). The beginning classes are the first impressions the club gives new members. The club’s BEST teacher should be teaching that class. This may not be the best fencer at your club, or even your best coach. One of the clubs I used to teach at swapped out their competitive foil coach with a relatively inexperienced fencer. The new teacher had taught school for a number of years, and knew the basics of fencing, but not much more. She was a huge success with classes, because she realized her job was to get students excited about fencing and about being at club, and not turn them into champions.



Great Point! Knowing how to fence and knowing how to effectively teach fencing are different. Good teaching is an art and is certainly not easy. It's really a difficult job if you do it right. It's like a good college course. Some professors are great researchers but really stink at teaching. Others never publish a thing, but are terrific teachers and fill up a class the day registration opens.

That said, my club (starting with basic foil fencing with epee and sabre offered later as a option) generally has a retention rate of 50%. The people that stay are not necessarily the best fencers. Some stay for the physical benefits of fencing which are great, others for the love of fencing, and others for the social aspect - they don't win much but they enjoy the company and comradery. We have been lucky to have a very good mix of people and no personality conflicts - (so far). It's also well structured and run (coaches show up on time); not overpriced so people get their money's worth; and we have regular semi-formal club tournaments that gives the members something to look forward to.

[Angwilwileth]

Just to throw my two cents in, I also have noticed this startling atrition rate.

At the beginning of my intro fencing class there were twice the number of people that are in it now.

I can't understand it.
Why would anybody not want to fence?

[glowstix]

Originally Posted by Angwilwileth

I can't understand it.
Why would anybody not want to fence?

hmm.. because its more technical and complicated that they thought and not anything like in the movies..because club gear really stinks...because group classes tend to suck and there is little one on one instruction so people lose interest..because losing to an experienced person is really discouraging and instead of looking at it as a learning experience they quit thinking that they'll never get that good..and of course, because fencing just isn't for everyone..

and to tell the truth, i kinda like it this way..would you really like to go to a full salle and maybe only get one good bout in because all the strips are being used?? would you like to have to compete for one on one with your coach?? unless you have the facilities and coaching staff to match, having a large club is not as good as you think.

[TrainingDummy]

My club (UT Fencing) has a dry foil tournament for beginning students (they learn on foil), final bouts are fenced electric. Winners get full or partial memberships paid for the next semester should they choose to join UT Fencing. Good way to give them a prize and give the best fencers incentive to continue fencing. $100 club dues waived for one semester is heaven for a broke college kid. Of course, the $100 rate is very good in the first place.

[edew]

Did it work? I've coupons for free membership or free lessons or whatever to those who did well at the end-of-class tournament. Some never took up the offer and the one kid who did was a waste of my time. The only reason he did well was because he was 12 and huge and everyone else in that class just happened to be smaller and younger. Otherwise, he was just not that good and didn't know how to get better (nor wanted to be; just wanted to use up a freebie deal).

I personally think a personal phone call or some other direct communication with the good fencers and tell them or their parents that the person is really good and ought to continue would suffice. It's a genuine sweet talk and it's free and sincere. It has helped for some. I haven't added the possibility of negotiating some deals in the case that the person is on the fence about learning to fence.

[KD5MDK]

In my experience the fencers who win the beginners foil tournament are the ones who stay involved with the club, but that may not be a result of having done well. However, it may encourage them to remain members when finances could have kept them out at the important beginner to full member jump.

[Dr. Pfleschbach]

Originally Posted by Durando

What the French call "conviviality" matters a whole lot. We frequently have a few drinks in the salle after practice. Much more agreeable way of conveying regional news, giving tactical insight, talking trash, etc. Just throw out some cheap wine, beer, and fruit juice for the kiddies.

This really works for the kids at our club. There are kids who start off not even really interested in fencing, they just want to hang with the other kids, who tend to be very friendly and supportive. After a while they see that their status increases with their ability so they start to really get into it.

The adults are more selective. I see the experienced adult fencers reaching out to the kids, but not to the neophyte adults (except when there are hormones involved). In general the adults tend to hang with other adults of similar ability unless it is someone they personally introduced to fencing.

[KD5MDK]

Do you make any effort to get those adults together outside of the direct fencing context? Most people are far more experienced socializing at a pub or restaraunt, rather than between strips at a salle. So if you get everybody to head down to your local establishment, they'll probably mingle far more than they would otherwise.

[jdoiv]

Originally Posted by KD5MDK

Do you make any effort to get those adults together outside of the direct fencing context? Most people are far more experienced socializing at a pub or restaraunt, rather than between strips at a salle. So if you get everybody to head down to your local establishment, they'll probably mingle far more than they would otherwise.

Hence, Durando's point of offering a little refreshment at the end of the night. Then people won't bail out on the way to the pub. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE going down to the pub and socializing. But I gotta say, Durado's idea is just more efficient (and probably cheaper). I think it also gets people to associate the salle as a social gathering spot and not just some dingy, smelly place to poke at each other. (hmm, maybe it is more like the pub than I thought, ).
I think I might grab a bottle of wine to take with me to the club this week....

[KD5MDK]

I guess I rather assumed that if you do your foodinating and drinking at the club, the cliques of different weapon/skill levels you have already will be retained, while if you go somewhere else, people will mix more freely.

Of course, I'm also accustomed to a site where everyone has to be out by 10pm, so lingering isn't possible.

[jdoiv]

Ah, I didn't think about that. Of course most of the clubs I been apart of have been rather small, so there was really only one or two cliques. I also understand the have to be out by 10pm as well. But if you have the dedicated facility, I think a little post work out socializing at the club would be a good way to build repeat business from begineers.
I think the single most important thing to retaining beginners is having a very open and friendly environment. Someone at the club (preferrably the coach, but not necessarily) should be an outgoing gregarious personality. Someone that can put people at ease and make introductions to people.

[RITFencing]

This is a bit more applicable for college clubs, but at RIT we make it a point to invite our newbies out to dinner after every saturday practice. It help them make friends within the club, and in the beginning of the year freshmen don't know many people, so it makes fencing an integral part of their social scene early.

[jBirch]

We had 100% retention, two semesters in a row then dropped off to about 50% retention as the club got underway. We attributed the drop off to an increase in membership with the co-commitent decrease in personal attention from our coach.

Part of the issue is the age of your beginners. Adults will move on more quickly then kids, with the kids generally staying for at least a year if you get the parents involved and/or they show improvement.

The first task of any beginner coach should be to emplace the passion for fencing. The problem could be with your coach and their ability to enthuse their students. There's not much you can do here except find a better beginner coach. It sucks, but some people just aren't suited to the encouragement of beginners.

The second task is to instill manners and an esprit de corps in the club. The problem could be with the culture in the club. The members might be abusing or bullying the newbies. They might not be abusing or bullying them enough. Newbies want to feel like they belong and they need to WANT to belong. Lots of the culture building activities above might help. Basically, just hang out, but talk about fencing (tactics, theory, the like).

The third task is then to teach the basics of fencing. The problem could be that your beginners are just no good at the sport and don't want to play a game they are bad at. Again, look to improving the skills of your beginner coach.

Finally, the last one, is to give the beginners some sense of accomplishment towards a goal they value. Structurally here you can build this by encouraging them to go to competitions as early as is feasible, by holding special newbie events, by letting them fence with the senior students and by kicking them in the arse with basic athletic exercises. You have to be careful here as you want to ratchet up the difficulty to the point where they have to strive to suceed but aren't scared to even try. Meaningful accomplishment is the buzzphrase.

Hope this helps.

James.