Gun totin' fencers

[Oor Wullie]

I've just read through the 'unusual items' thread, and was surprised to see the amount of mentions made to guns. How many people on this list actually carry a firearm, and have they ever been tempted (in a moment of on-piste frustration) to do an Indiana Jones and blow their opponent away in the middle of a fancy attack?

I don't like the idea of volatile, aggressive swordsmen also packing loaded guns. Sounds like a recipe for disaster to me...

[space_cadet]

Welcome to America. Enjoy your stay.

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Cadet à Space

[Mergs]

Trust me, there have been several times at competitions (and practice for that matter) that the thought has crossed my mind. Although I do have a pistol, it has never been fired or has left the house. Wouldn't even consider carrying it to a tournament.

Although, I must say, since Texas has gotten the concealed gun law passed, violent crime has DECREASED. Unlike what I hear has happened in GB and Australia.

"An armed society is a polite society"

[latenight]

Maybe everyone should carry blackpowder guns. It's hard to a driveby with a musket.


Just joking, I own a gun, as stated before, but I don't take it to comps or many other places

[This message has been edited by latenight (edited 03-30-2001).]

[Gav]

Mergs.

What's this reference to gun violence going up in GB? Britain is quite a law abiding society and very few people actually own (or are allowed to own) guns. Don't believe the tabloids violent, crime is reasonably uncommon over here.

I myself have seen the results of a shooting (2 people killed in a gangland shooting when I was a kid). But this is EXTREMELY unusual - apart from a couple of really bad areas throughout the country.

Still, I'm interested in these stats you mentioned.

[MikeHarm]

This might be where all the fencers who are into paintball is coming from. :-)

Mike

[Mergs]

Gav,

For a society that prided itself on the fact that their police didn't carry weapons, why do they do so now? To me that's the most telling stat.

[Mergs]

Of what? More criminals with guns that are willing to use them?

Deterance works. (yeah, I know, no spell check), but that is a discussion for another time/discussion group (politics/history outside of fencing).

[Oor Wullie]

Hmmm,

Maybe fat-cat established authors who have become lazy don't care about spelling, but those of us who are struggling to get published have to care. If I were to send a manuscript full of typos to a publisher, he or she wouldn't even read it. There is no way I can afford a secretary, so I have to do it myself!

Mergs, I don't agree with you about a gun-wielding society being more civilised, but this isn't really the place to discuss it!

[Fencing Girlie]

Mergs,

I asssume you were talking about GB when you say our police force now carry wepaons.

Our armed response unit do and always have carried guns but normal police officers do not. The only weapons they carry are batons and there are some tests of cs gas sprays.

However in 5 years of working in crimianl courts in Glasgow (arguably Scotland's most violent city) I can honestly say I could count the number of shootings on one hand.
Sad to say that knives are still the most common probably because of availability. Probably why I get such stange looks when I say I play with swords for fun!!

[Mergs]

Point taken. Thanks.

[space_cadet]

To Oor Willie,
It's kind of like this, we like to think that all people are nice and can live peacably amongst each other in a civilized manner. But, that's just not reality. Then we wouldn't need the police, now would we. You, of course, are in GB and we are in the USA. Not everyone here is carrying a gun or knife or pepper spray or a stun gun. But some choose to do so for self protection.
If you do ever visit the US, I would like to recommend visiting the Bedford-Stuyvesant area in New York City.

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Cadet à Space

[Oor Wullie]

Why, am I likely to be shot at there? Or am I just being paranoid?

You are right in that people are people, and we are a bunch of violent psychos. I'm not claiming any kind of inside track on how many people carry guns in the US, or any other country. The problem I see with carrying guns is that it is a handy violent response. When people lose their tempers, often they reach for the nearest available weapon. If that happens to be a gun...

At least in a knife fight, you have more of a chance. Interestingly enough, in the UK people tend to rob stores with replica guns and/ or knives, largely because they know they won't be faced with an armed response. The end result is still that the store is robbed, as it would be in a gun-toting country, but the risk of innocent casualties is drastically reduced. It's horses for courses really. Crime/ robbery will always happen, and the criminals will use the appropriate equipment to carry it out. The less deadly the equipment, the fewer people die.

Ultimately, I don't think living in a society where everyone carries a weapon makes people more polite to each other; it simply escalates the level of violence available to the combatants.

[Stryder]

One more point Willy,
Having access to a firearm increases the danger to the criminal by a factor of 1000's.
Where it may increase the potntial for injury to the victim by some. The victim is always at risk. The criminal is at risk only if he tries to rob an armed person.

When is a gun in a good guy's hand dangerous?

Oh, in answer to the original question: Yes I am licensed to carry, and do carry a concealed firearm. But no, I have never in my life thought I needed it.
It is a right, and just like the right to vote. You use it or you lose it.


[This message has been edited by Stryder (edited 04-04-2001).]

[Fencing Girlie]

Of course a gun in the hands of a even a good guy is dangerous. Mistakes do happen and who defines who are the good guys and who are the bad guys.

I suppose the advantage we have in GB is in preventative action by police. If someone is found in public with a gun or indeed a blade of any kind then they are invariably held in custody and it is becoming well publicised that they will go to jail. That way the polcie don't have to wait until someone uses a weapon to respond.

I think I prefer not having that particular right.

I suppose you could compare it to - you should always take a bomb on a plane. Coz the chances of two bombs on one plane are tiny!!

[Stryder]

Of course you don't approve of the right to bear arms, you're British. The right to bear arms cost your country the best part, the USA!

Just kidding. I was in England in 1997 and I saw two cops without guns and several with. They had cute little cables attaching their guns to their belts. As if that makes it safe.

Guns are unsafe. When I was single I thought that I would rather take my chances of getting beaten and robbed rather than kill someone. Besides, I thought I could outrun anyone I couldn't beat up.
Now I am married and I have a little girl. I can no longer afford to be tolerant of criminals. Where I live guns are common. My father says he took guns to school every day. They went hunting after school. The idea that kids might act out violently never occurred to anyone at the time.

The fact that gun crimes are still rising has nothing to do with gun laws or lack of them. 20 years ago there were fewer gun laws and fewer gun crimes. 50 years ago the story is the same. Guns don't kill people, cutting me off in traffic kills people.

[Amie]

Originally posted by Stryder:
My father says he took guns to school every day. They went hunting after school. The idea that kids might act out violently never occurred to anyone at the time.

This probably sounds really dumb but where did they keep their guns when they brought them to school? Did they tote them from class to class or put them in their lockers or did they have to put them altogether somewhere until school was over? Just curious.

Amie

[Oor Wullie]

Stryder,

You make some good points. The only thing I would say is that I am not a great believer in deterrance. Most criminals commit a crime in the belief they will get away with it, otherwise they wouldn't do it. Mind you, I would probably be a bit more reticent to grab an old ladies' handbag if she was going to pull out a magnum and shoot me in the arse as I ran away.

Anyway, I think fencers should be allowed to carry mock guns with them while competing. In each competition they are allowed one shot with which they can win the bout. This would eliminate the boring predictability with which certain good fencers win everything!

[Stryder]

Willey
The only way that would work is if the top eight weren't given the fake guns. And let's say one shot is worth 10 point to anyone seeded lower than 64th and 5 points to anyone seeded 32 to 64th and maybe one point to those seeded 8-16

We'll call it "cheaters fencing", or "Weighted fencing"

We used to play "cheater's foil" in which there were almost no rules except right of way. Fencers would employ human sheilds and dead lame's. rewire their body cords to include on/off switches for the lame. Once you caught them they had to stop but all points stand.

It was fun.

[Gav]

Hey fencing girlie...

Who are you?

Where do you fence?

As a wee side note to the thread, I had a flatmate who believed that firearms took the "honour" out of warfare! Almost as though nobody died before gus were invented - well died dishonourably anyway. Weirdo!