More fencing footage

[Fechter1]

Hmm....so this was the round of 4, you won 15-10 rather easily, the guy you were fencing is an "A2006" and we can all see the video....maybe this rating inflation argument isn't so out of place...

Butcher's an A? Didn't seem like it when I was watching the tape... Maybe he was just having an off day... Have to sample the tape again...

Edit: Nope, he still has those holes that I wouldn't expect to see in the game of a strong A... Too bad AskFred's down right now, so I can't see the the relevant results...

[Durando]

This is one of those moments when it's embarrassing to be a fencer.

I'm also reminded of why people hate epee.

Did you notice how much time they spent inside the key? I thought that was a technical foul of some sort. But what do I know?

[Mr Epee]

Did you notice how much time they spent inside the key? I thought that was a technical foul of some sort. But what do I know?

HAHAHAA!

Joke of the week right there folks..

[D+F+P=Hadouken!]

Think how that bout would have appeared to a live spectator sans soundtrack. I would have rather watched tiddlywinks. At least people know upfront that tiddlywinks isn't supposed to be an athletic contest. Although, to be fair, it does have more strategy.

So you thought the soundtrack was good?

Whew.

Thanks man, mucho aprecio.

Some constructive criticism would have been nice.

[RITFencing]

Some constructive criticism would have been nice.

Oh, the irony.

For constructive criticism:

You seem to be pretty light on your feet, which is of course good, but there are some times I saw you sweep for his blade and lift your back foot off the ground, effectively placing you off balance, which takes away the mobility that you seem to be capable of. If Butcher had avoided your search and came in with a quick fleche, it might have spelled trouble. You know as well as anyone what immobility does.

[D+F+P=Hadouken!]

Thank you.

[RITFencing]

You're welcome; I hope it helps.

[Mr Epee]

So you thought the soundtrack was good?

Well, now that you mention it.
The second song sucked.

Some constructive criticism would have been nice.

This all depends on your personal fencing goals.

If you goal is to have fun, and enjoy looking like the goat herder marionette from the Sound of Music - then the King's to you.

If you want to become an elite competitive fencer

1. Move somewhere where there are already dedicated competitive fencers.
2. Employ a qualified coach who is willing to work with you.
3. Start participating in national competitions appropriate to your age level.
4. Rinse and Repeat

And even that may not be sufficient.
It's sad, but sometimes passion isn't enough.

The current competitive bar for US Fencing is simply too high to be challenged by a teenager on F.Net without a more traditional training environment.

[swordsen]

Not sure where the rating inflation bit comes from. As I look at who is still fencing in the scene I see an A, 2Bs and a C in the Top four of the event. Seems like things worked out fairly well.

[mlr2fence]

Unfortunately fencing is not like some other sports (FB, BB,...) where you can become a 'star' no matter where you live. Not every fencer has the luxury of living in an area with strong fencing so they have to struggle to do the best they can with what limited resources are available to them. For some it means waiting until they go to college or start that 'first job' and hope its in an area with a strong college or club program. Ever wonder who the 'fencing elite' in this country would be if there was equal opportunity to top level coaching, bouting, etc distributed country wide? I give extra credit to those on the NRPS from non-fencing hotbed areas, esp the kids, who are less likely to have come from somewhere else.
I give DFP credit for trying the best he can with the resources he has. It takes courage to post a video and open it up for comments.

[Mr Epee]

Not sure where the rating inflation bit comes from. As I look at who is still fencing in the scene I see an A, 2Bs and a C in the Top four of the event. Seems like things worked out fairly well.

It comes from the fact that folks still expect competent fencing from folks who hold "A" and "B" ratings. There was a time when "A" rated fencers were expected to be competitive at a national level. Today, this is not true.

I'm fine with the current situation, because the fencers who are competitive at the national level have a point system to protect their status, and seeding position. It's a good system. I know of at least 2 "B" rated fencers who made it into the top 20 of the point standings - both were pretty damn good fencers and didn't need a letter classification to back it up...

[D+F+P=Hadouken!]

If you want to become an elite competitive fencer

1. Move somewhere where there are already dedicated competitive fencers.
2. Employ a qualified coach who is willing to work with you.
3. Start participating in national competitions appropriate to your age level.
4. Rinse and Repeat

Good advice.

Socioeconomic situations suck ass.

[Mr Epee]

Unfortunately fencing is not like some other sports (FB, BB,...) where you can become a 'star' no matter where you live. Not every fencer has the luxury of living in an area with strong fencing so they have to struggle to do the best they can with what limited resources are available to them. For some it means waiting until they go to college or start that 'first job' and hope its in an area with a strong college or club program. Ever wonder who the 'fencing elite' in this country would be if there was equal opportunity to top level coaching, bouting, etc distributed country wide? I give extra credit to those on the NRPS from non-fencing hotbed areas, esp the kids, who are less likely to have come from somewhere else.

Good point.

Sports simply aren't fair. The reality is that regardless of desire, kids in most of the country are never going to be competitive with the Ben Atkins and Benji Ungars of the fencing world - both of whom were taking lessons and fencing at the NYAC since they were little kids. Sad but true.

It's important (if not particularly kind in the short term) to point this out occasionally.

[RITFencing]

It's not a substitute for year round lessons, but you should try to attend camps given by top coaches. While you're there, try not only to improve your fencing but to walk away with what you need to work on and how you need to do so. When going to NACs and large, strong tournaments, watch the people who place highly and see why they win. Heck, get some world cup dvds and study them.

I know exactly how you feel about not getting any really great instruction; Rochester is a foil city, and RFC is very nearly a foil only club. The trick is to soak up as much knowledge as you can, wherever you can, and try to spend as much time as possible acting on it.

Also, considering your age, keep your grades up in high school and try to get into a college with a really solid fencing program (OSU, Notre Dame, the Air Force Academy, etc.) Even if your economic situation isn't that great, you may be able to land some scolarships. If you can get on to one of those teams, you can get a lot of time with very skilled coaches and fencers, and they may be able to pay your way to competitions.

[RoninX]

If that guy is an A (I too wish I knew where he picked that up!) I can see getting pumped up, especially since you are winning (the damn DL still isn't more than halfway through as of this post). None the less you might want to act like you've previously scored a touch on the piste in the future.

Though it is funny when you're up 10-4 or someone and your opponent celibrates a touch like they just won a world cup.

[Mr Epee]

Though it is funny when you're up 10-4 or someone and your opponent celebrates a touch like they just won a world cup.

Um... I've witnessed dozens of World Cup finals - in person.

No one ever celebrated like that

[oiuyt]

Too bad AskFred's down right now, so I can't see the the relevant results...

Earned it by winning the "Through the Heart" tournament in Atlanta around Valentine's Day. 43 people including 2 A's (Bruce Vail, 2nd place; Derrick Schroff, 7th place). Had a B for at least a couple of years prior to earning the A.

-B

[RoninX]

Hmm... not to belittle DFP, but he didn't look like even a B that day, but then we all have bad days.

It looked like his "advance" bounces were way too large and DFP totally took it to him on those touches where he seemed to obliviously close distance.

Thanks for the video BTW always fun to have something to over-analyze.

[mrbiggs]

Hmm... not to belittle DFP, but he didn't look like even a B that day, but then we all have bad days.

Which is ironic because this was the tournament where he reearned his B, meaning that first off he was obviously fencing at a B level, first because he reearned it and second because he beat a B and an A to get there.

I can't beleive that people still value rankings to this extent, especially bouts between Bs and As, and especially in epee! Ratings vary drastically by region and by competition.

As an example, my epee pool last weekend. It consisted of two Bs (B1 and B2), a very strong C, 2 Ds (D1 and D2), and an E.

After pools, we were seeded in this order, relatively:

B1
E B2 (tie)
D1
C
D2

Then, our final results were as such:

B1
E
C
B2
D1
D2

This wasn't an extreme example, it's just an average pool. It's not like the weak C1 I once attended (15 fencers, 2Cs, 3Ds, 1E) that turned into a D1 because both of the C fencers were knocked out before the round of 8.

In short, rankings rarely accurately reflect performance no matter how well they are deserved. Stop talking about "A fencing" and "B fencing," these terms are meaningless.

[thud]

Thanks for the video BTW always fun to have something to over-analyze.

Indeed. But I feel that some of these comments have been a little pejorative to DFP, though he has responded very graciously and was kind enough to show us this footage to begin with.