NFL draft

[RoninX]

Any thoughts on the draft so far? I think the seahawks and steelers both quiety had pretty good first days. IMO the best thing about getting Leinhart at #10 for the cardinals is that they managed to take him where they won't get quite as much flack if he busts. I'm not sure that Denver is really that good of a situation for Cutler and but so much for Shanahan's faith in Plummer...

[chefencer]

Well, you know sometimes we say things we don't mean, it's just we didn't know we didn't mean it until something better comes along...

[Mr Epee]

Bush to NO was fun to see... considering the bad luck last year it's nice to see something good happen for them.

Houston needed defense more than anything, and hopefully made the correct decision.

Leinart going to AZ was good too. He'll get to hang out with a quality vet quarterback as he gets his head in the pro game. A much better chance than ending up with the Jets and Pennington.

[chefencer]

Any opinions on Young?

[RoninX]

I actually think Young will be a better pro than michael vick... maybe thats not saying much but he'll probably be better than Leinhart as well. The guy can definitely lead a team, this is a fact regardless of your opinion of his arm.

[chefencer]

I only saw the Rose Bowl, but...Sheesh! Astonishing! I think leadership is his strongest trait. I found it ironic that he went to the Oilers...

[RoninX]

Titans... ...they haven't been oilers for years...

...I watched him 5 times since the rose bowl last year where he tore out UM's heart (much to my delite). This might be easy to say since they won every game but he never looked out of control to me. I hope Tennessee keeps McNair and lets Vince sit for a season. He definitely needs a year to catch up to the NFL game and work extensively with a QB coach.

[chefencer]

I was making a bit of a joke, since he's a Houston native...
I still have to mentally move the Cards out of St. Louis and the Rams from L.A. every time I think of those teams, but then I'm a Vet... and Roger Staubach still hands the ball to Tony Dorsett...

[Mr Epee]

I actually think Young will be a better pro than michael vick....

Is Michael Vick even as good as Michael Vick?

Believe me, I'm rooting for Young, but fast, powerful, athletic, running QBs don't have a great track record in the NFL over the long haul.

[chefencer]

Is Michael Vick even as good as Michael Vick?

Believe me, I'm rooting for Young, but fast, powerful, athletic, running QBs don't have a great track record in the NFL over the long haul.

I wonder if Staubach was successful because he had to get out of the service before he could play? I hadn't thought about that before, but maturity would help you to keep your knees longer and keep your head when things get sticky - you don't run until there's an opportunity or you're out of options.

I agree Young needs to sit, regardless, but I'm looking forward to watching him play.

[KShan5[PrFC]]

Titans... ...they haven't been oilers for years...

...I watched him 5 times since the rose bowl last year where he tore out UM's heart (much to my delite). This might be easy to say since they won every game but he never looked out of control to me. I hope Tennessee keeps McNair and lets Vince sit for a season. He definitely needs a year to catch up to the NFL game and work extensively with a QB coach.

Plus he'll be working with Norm Chow, who orchestrated those powerful offenses at USC, so he'll have someone who can set up an offense around him.

I'm actually more happy with the Pats second picj than their first. We picked up arguably the best WR in the draft in Chad Jackson, instead of Maroney, the secone RB picked behind Bush. We desperately needed a WR, so it's nice to have Jackson, but with Corey Dillon getting older Maroney is a good pickup. What I don't understand is why we picked up two more tightends, with Watson and Graham both being really young guys, and stellar at TE, I don't see why they picked up another 2. Plus we didn't pick up a single defense back, which I don't understand why, but w/e.

[bigdawg2121]

I think that maybe folks should just give Young a chance. Yeah he has some work to do in terms of fixing his release, and making sure he steps into the pass instead of throwing flat footed (for plays in the 20yd+ range) but other than that he has a fast release with very good accuracy (even if its ugly). As far as being able to run an NFL offense I don't think anyone can say he can't, he's simply never had to stay in the pocket. He ran with an option team so that's what he did. I think if/when you put him the situation of having to be a pocket oriented passer that scrambles only when necessary he'll probably adjust just fine.

[glowstix]

hey, we had 4 of our defensive guys get picked in the first round.. go noles!!

[RoninX]

Is Michael Vick even as good as Michael Vick?

Believe me, I'm rooting for Young, but fast, powerful, athletic, running QBs don't have a great track record in the NFL over the long haul.

Several have, most who have are remembered as QBs though, not running QBs. Examples include Young, Staubach, Elway (who alot of people forget when talking about running QBs) and to a lesser extent McNabb and McNair.

All these guys were "powerful, athlectic, running QBs" at least for the first 5 years or so.

Point taken about Vick, though i really believe the West Coast offense is a terrible match to his particular skill set.

[glowstix]

Several have, most who have are remembered as QBs though, not running QBs. Examples include Young, Staubach, Elway (who alot of people forget when talking about running QBs) and to a lesser extent McNabb and McNair.

Young, Staubach, Elway = throwing qb's who could run.
Vick, McNabb, McNair = running qb's who could throw.

...slight difference to me. McNabb and McNair may have had decent passing statistics a few times but their passing were still conservative west coast styles.

[ChrisBrasel]

I heard that NO coaching staff acutally wanted Matt, where as the owners want Vince. Like to see how that works out.

[glowstix]

I heard that NO coaching staff acutally wanted Matt, where as the owners want Vince. Like to see how that works out.

that's pretty stupid since pocket passers always win superbowls.. (yes, steve young was a pocket passers, he just also knew how to run).

[RoninX]

Young, Staubach, Elway = throwing qb's who could run.
Vick, McNabb, McNair = running qb's who could throw.

...slight difference to me. McNabb and McNair may have had decent passing statistics a few times but their passing were still conservative west coast styles.

This is exactly what I mean. People call you are a "pocket passer" who can run if you win and a "runner who can pass" if you don't. However all those guys who you consider "runners" had much less to work with that the "passers" - the Staubach Dallas teams had amazing receivers and a dominating "doomsday" D, That 95 Steve young '9er Team had Ricky Waters at his peak, Rice, and again a Dominating D, Elway lost until he got a running back who is still the only multiple 2k yard rusher in NFL history and a great D... patterns are becoming clear, right?

Vick has no receivers, McNAbb doesn't have a running back and only had a receiver for half of one season (and they went to a SB that year), McNair only had a great D and a healthy Eddie george for 1 year but never really had great receivers still got to the superbowl and lost by 1 yard to the "greatest show on turf"...

...all these guys basically had very similar skill sets (though clearly some variation within that set).

So here's hoping VY gets a RB and the tennessee gets a little stouter

[KShan5[PrFC]]

This is exactly what I mean. People call you are a "pocket passer" who can run if you win and a "runner who can pass" if you don't. However all those guys who you consider "runners" had much less to work with that the "passers" - the Staubach Dallas teams had amazing receivers and a dominating "doomsday" D, That 95 Steve young '9er Team had Ricky Waters at his peak, Rice, and again a Dominating D, Elway lost until he got a running back who is still the only multiple 2k yard rusher in NFL history and a great D... patterns are becoming clear, right?

Vick has no receivers, McNAbb doesn't have a running back and only had a receiver for half of one season (and they went to a SB that year), McNair only had a great D and a healthy Eddie george for 1 year but never really had great receivers still got to the superbowl and lost by 1 yard to the "greatest show on turf"...

...all these guys basically had very similar skill sets (though clearly some variation within that set).

So here's hoping VY gets a RB and the tennessee gets a little stouter

Let's not forget McNair had Mason and Weichek at their prime, and granted they're no Rice or Shannon Sharpe, but they were pretty potent during that Super Bowl run (if you remember Wycheck was the one who threw the pass during the Music City Miracle on the kick return against the Bills to win the game). Plus McNair can run so can McNabb, but they can sit in the pockett and throw and be effective. That's not true about Vick, he's most dangerous when he's in the open field running, passing is pretty much his second option. (Hence why he is failing in that West Coast Offense).

Plus Chris Brown could still turn out to be a really great back for Vince Young to have. (And Tennessee isn't going to do anything this year, so they'll have an early pick again next year, where they'll be able to pick up either a premiere back or wide out).

[oiuyt]

if you remember Wycheck was the one who threw the pass during the Music City Miracle on the kick return against the Bills to win the game.

Now, now. That was a "lateral". :)

Staubach ... amazing receivers and a dominating "doomsday" D ... Steve Young ... Ricky Waters, Rice, and again a Dominating D, Elway ... a running back ... and a great D... patterns are becoming clear, right?

You mean that great QB's become great by having dominating defenses? :)

-B