duel in the desert

[edew]

Given that they have been getting numbers in the mid-100s in epee and foil and high 50s and 60s in saber and other women's events, I don't think advertising is the issue. If they get a larger turn-out, they only need to get a larger venue and that exacerbates the whole thing, because they're now limited to fewer venue opportunities. And they charge NAC prices for the events, so they're not cheap, either. (Most other PCS events charge $30 for the registration and $20/event, or something within that range.)

It would be nice to mention on whatever fliers they put out that attendees should reserve the rooms by a certain time and using a certain reservation code, because that will help the success of the event.

Many event planners and experienced event attendees are familiar with this. Most newbie event attendees are not, so it's nice to explain why it's important to make reservations using the specific code.

[jtrsangel]

Sounds like reducing cost is the only way to start to pull a profit or break even for this event.

Well given my experience in the hotel industry (this is slightly different than cassinos since they are their own monster), casinos make money on gamblers & food & beverage. With a fencing competition not really using any catering the contracts are going to jack up the room revenue since the actual convention space is a gimme (i.e. requiring higher blocks & increasing the room rate & requiring a 30 day fulfilment on reservations).

What is the average cost for floor space in places like sports arena's or even the University?

Is there a business model for NAC's and do they make any profit?

Would it be worth moving the competition to early to mid fall as opposed to the January time frame?

What about sponsorships?

Ok, done bugging people about this...

[AAAI]

.....

[KD5MDK]

NACs generally do not make money, between the cost of officials, venue and equipment. The economies of scale are much better for Summer Nationals, and the USFA covers the NAC shortfalls from the Summer Nats profits. Some NACs have been making money recently because of massive numbers of late registrations paying triple fees, but then the capacity in officials and scheduling is thrown out of whack and things are less optimal.

[veeco]

Well, then that wouldnt be The Duel anymore and therfore probably not worth the saving effort...

I agree, but one option could be to use a sports arena to do the event itself, and use less space for less time in a casino for the "saturday night fights"

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[KD5MDK]

Are there any conveniently located, cheaper, sports venues in LV?

I think that without knowing where the biggest expenses are, and their relative variability, it would be difficult to determine exactly what needs changing. Some parts are pretty clear, for example: Having everybody stay at the host hotel and making the room block cannot but help. On the other hand, perhaps more sponsors might be found, or event sizes increased.

Here's an idea for a fundraiser: Have some prominent fencers offer to bout with any comer (15 touch DE) on an off day for $15 or something, proceeds split between the fencer and tournament.

[jtrsangel]

Wow, I would have thought that NAC's would make about a 20% profit based on registration fees and such.

I like veeco's idea about different venue sites for the main events and other stuff.

This might be a way out there suggestion...but what if you do some of the extra curricular fencing stuff outside. If the Evan is using those heavy metal strips. Perhaps market the saturday night fights as the duel part and sell tickets for spectators?

Wayne was telling me about the Tuscon International where some of the events were held outside. One touch epee non-electrical (yes this was a LONG time ago). With advancements in battery operated machines I'm sure it could work with electrical aparatus. This could be marketed to either create revenue for the tournament (pre tournament) or at the tournament itself for spectators to watch a real (sans blood shed...that would be illegal) duel?

If this idea sounds off the wall remember I spend half the year in the dark!

[edew]

DitD first started off using the UNLV athletic facilities. It was there for several years before moving to an actual casino/hotel. Then it was at various off-strip casino hotels until moving to the Tropicana and then the Flamingo. After the Flamingo was sold from one biz to another, which probably had a factor in moving to the Riviera, it became more difficult to find a suitable place.

As for the NACs, most NACs should make money if the expected entries arrive. Most NACs are held at off-peak use of convention space and can be had for around $1-2K/day. The biggest cost for NACs is the referee travel and shipping the equipment. I'd say the order of expenses for an NAC would be as such:

Referees* travel and lodging: $100-150K
Equipment shipment: $20-40K
Venue specific equipment (pipe and drape, chairs, table, raised section, etc.) $5-10K
Venue: $4-8K
Medals and other minor stuff: <$1K

*includes all other staff such as BC, medical, staff (Christine Simmons), armorers.

For example, I would imagine the Sacramento NAC would be a money loser for the USFA this year. Summer Nationals are usually money makers for the USFA.

The amount for referees for the DitD is slightly less because Evan does try to utilize fencer/referees and more "local" referees instead of the cream-of-the-crop.

Part of the factor in getting a decent price for the venue is the promise of enough room-nights to participating hotels (the "host hotels"). In some cases, part of the hotel price (say, $5/night) goes from the hotel to the convention center to pay for part of the cost.

Be careful to negotiate for every little detail or they'll ding you for paper towels, soap, toilet paper, use of light switch and the air you breathe. (The 1988 Nationals were held at Northwestern University near Chicago and was gotten with the venue for free on the condition that the HVAC was not to be used. People wilted left and right during that competition, but they got the venue for free. After that, standards were added to the Ops Manual to make sure that won't happen again, mainly by having the national office be the organizer.)