Fencing: A sport or an Art form?

[CountAntonio]

Or both....your views? I've seen many people debate about this subject on numerous threads but yet to have read one posing this question.

[Mihail]

Well, a sport is very vaguely and crudely defined as a competitive, athletic activity.

An art is similarly rudimentarily defined as something created by the artist to evoke an emotional response from an audience.

So while, as stated, these definitions are very elementary, fencing is clearly closer to the former than to the latter.

[veeco]

Well, a sport is very vaguely and crudely defined as a competitive, athletic activity.

An art is similarly rudimentarily defined as something created by the artist to evoke an emotional response from an audience.

So while, as stated, these definitions are very elementary, fencing is clearly closer to the former than to the latter.

In my case, I evoke emotional responses from the audience when I fence. Because I look good ;-)

[WJM]

I find it depressing that thus far, I'm the lone "art" vote. Art doesn't have to be non-physical. Some in bodybuilding look at it as a physical sculpture.

[keropie]

Right, sure, whatever, but voting art and not both denies that fencing is a sport. I find it depressing that now there are two of you who somehow deny fencing is a sport.

Additionally, while something may be able to be expressed in an artistic manner, or gracefully, or what-have-you, when the results of the activity are judged by points that have no consideration of grace/artfulness, I'll call it a sport (and to fencing=sport fencing, so there you are).

[JMcC]

Or both....your views? I've seen many people debate about this subject on numerous threads but yet to have read one posing this question.

It, of course, depends on your definition of both words.

But by contemporary standards, I would have to say it is a sport and not an art; perhaps "craft" might be closer.

Art permits free expression and even encourages "rule" breaking. If any sport is to be formal, competitive and fair, it could not be such an art. It would degenerate into unworkable anarchy if there were no rules adhered to by all its practitioners.

"Craft" has plenty of room for inspiration and creativity, but within much more limiting restrictions and parameters.

[keith]

Some in bodybuilding look at it as a physical sculpture.

Yes and others look at it as a bunch of blokes so pumped up on steriods that their nuts have shrivelled to raisins and their cardiovascular system is about to crap out.

so yeh fencing, definitely an art form. Generally reminiscent of Pollock on an off day.

[RebelFencer]

I was wondering when another one of these threads was going to pop up. Sport.

[vooter]

I find it depressing that thus far, I'm the lone "art" vote. Art doesn't have to be non-physical. Some in bodybuilding look at it as a physical sculpture.

And things don't have to be "art" to be good or worthwhile. Why do you feel that art is somehow more compelling than sport?

Gary

[The48thRonin]

I have always viewed fencing as a martial art "A system of combat and self defense" at least in its origins. In my opinion art and martial art are not far apart being that whether you have a foil or a brush there are always little idiosyncrasy's and touches of individual expression. I also see it as a sport for it is a bases of competition, self discipline and good ole fashion enjoyment. So I voted both

[knave]

Art permits free expression and even encourages "rule" breaking.

Wouldn't that be epee?

Seriously, fencing is a sport. Great fencing can be art.

[The48thRonin]

Wouldn't that be epee?

Seriously, fencing is a sport. Great fencing can be art.

well spoken

[OROD]

On the other hand... just about anything is a sport these days... bowling, poker, ping-pong, dancing, walking, eating...

I'm just waiting for breathing and sitting on a couch to becomes sports.

.

[mrbiggs]

Whether or not something I do looks good ranks far behind whether or not it successfully scores points. Therefore, it's definately a sport.


And not everything that is aesthetically pleasing is art.

[knave]

On the other hand... just about anything is a sport these days... bowling, poker, ping-pong, dancing, walking, eating...

I'm just waiting for breathing and sitting on a couch to becomes sports.

.

My coach says it's not a sport if you can't (somehow) get killed doing it. So I'd say ping-pong and breathing are not sports.. You can probably make an argument for the others.

Then again, my coach also teaches boxing and kickboxing. He's just a bit crazy.

[Mr Epee]

My coach says it's not a sport if you can't (somehow) get killed doing it. So I'd say ping-pong and breathing are not sports.. You can probably make an argument for the others.

Then again, my coach also teaches boxing and kickboxing. He's just a bit crazy.

You coach isn't "just a bit crazy"... he's a flippin' moron.

He's on the official list.

[knave]

You coach isn't "just a bit crazy"... he's a flippin' moron.

He's on the official list.

Well.. I wish I could disagree with you, but I can't really. He fences saber after all.

[Epee_Pox]

Where's the choice for "neither"? I am certain there are those who would say that fencing is a pastime, rather than a sport, and not an art.

There are athletic activities that are not sports. (jogging, for example)

There are sports that are not athletic activities. (vehicular sports, for example)

There are active pastimes that are not athletic and are not sports. (ping pong, video games, for example)

I personally consider fencing to be a sport, but can see how one could define "sport" in such a way that fencing would be just as excluded as ping-pong and darts.


Fencing is certainly not Art. It is a "martial art," but martial arts are not Art, any more than are liberal arts or grammar (sometimes inexplicably referred to as "language arts"). This usage of the word "art" is an archaic usage, now best replaced by the word "discipline."

[keropie]

Hmm... I don't think that one could define fencing in a way as to not call it a sport. Just because when some people perform it, it is non athletic, doesn't mean it's not a sport. Trust me, watch some people play basketball, or consider some (even major league) baseball players, and not all sports are full of athletes.

My own personal set of definitions are as follows:

Physical event: activity in which atheticism or physical ability plays a significant role, but scoring is significantly subjective (diving, figure skating, etc.)

Game: activity in which scoring is objective, but physical ability/conditioning is relatively or entirely unimportant (chess, stock car driving, golf even, though it at least is debatable)

Athletic event: physical activity in which performance is based on objective scoring of some sort (or mildly subjective in terms of rules violations or olympic boxing/tkd/etc.) that involves no direct competition, i.e., defense. So track and field, swimming, etc.

Sport: Athletic event with defense. I find defense to be a hugely important factor, in that the opponent's ability hampers your ability to perform, making it an interactive event. Football, basketball, fencing, etc. fall here.

Now, I don't claim that any of these are better or worse than one another, just different categories in my own mind. I think most people would call most events in groups 1, 3, and 4 sports, and most events in 2 not sports (though some argument about what goes where).

[The48thRonin]

I must agree with you keropie on your break down of "sport" however fencing is so much more than just a sport or a pastime if you shed the practical down to earth point of view. Its something that inspires and flows through the veins. You square off with your opponent then you feel your body relax, you are calm and fluid..... Then its no big deal who whens the bout its about following you body. using the muscle memory gained in hours of practice flowing from step to step, parry to thrust. That probably sounds corny and I'm sure many of you may be to pragmatic for this but that is how i feel, that is why i fenced, that is why i hope to fence again.