View Poll Results: When would you permit abortions (for those who would, only) - Voters
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To save mother’s life – at any time before normal birth
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To save mother’s life – only up to a certain point
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Unwanted due to birth defect – at any time before normal birth
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Unwanted due to birth defect – only up to a certain point
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Unwanted due to rape – any time before normal birth
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Unwanted due to rape – only up to a certain point
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Unwanted due to incest – any time before normal birth
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Unwanted due to incest – only up to a certain point
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Unwanted for any other reason – any time up to birth
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Unwanted for any other reason – only up to a certain point
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Senior Member
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Abortion! Your favorite topic! If you made the rules...
If you would permit abortion of a pregnancy that otherwise would have resulted in a live birth, under what circumstances do you think it should be allowed?
The focus of this poll is your personal feeling, not an analysis of existing laws. Also, those who are opposed to such abortion under any circumstances are beyond the scope of this poll. Just because you have the right, that doesn't mean it is right.
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it's kind of interesting that, pace Singer and the Catholic church, there are only two ethically/morally consistent options  .
.... and I suspect that those two will not be the top picks.
edit: flawed, no option for; No, never over, Benedict XVI's dead body! etc
Last edited by keith; 04-25-2006 at 05:00 PM.
au revoir
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Abortion to me us ridiculous. I think It should be allowed to save the mothers life or in case of rape other than that it should be heavily penalized. Cause after all only an irrisponsible person doesnt use protection then gets an abortion as an easy out. What angers me is the fact that many women depend on abortion as a birth control method and do it time and time again. I dont think it should be out lawed but it should carry with it a punishment for those irresponsible people who abuse it. "live in your world, Die in mine."
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First sign of this topic getting out of hand and the thread gets canned.
No discussion.
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Posting Hound
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 Originally Posted by CountAntonio What angers me is the fact that many women depend on abortion as a birth control method and do it time and time again. “Many” is inaccurate. Anyone who’s familiar with the procedure involved in having an abortion and the variety of birth control available would not chose to have an abortion.
In either case, a woman has a right to make decisions about her own body. Beer, it's whats for dinner! ~ a young snowboarding Canadian
The meek don't want it! ~ sticker on a rock band's guitar
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Originally Posted by Fencergrl In either case, a woman has a right to make decisions about her own body. I agree about this part, but when is she effecting another persons body? Is a fetus not a person?
Last edited by D+F+P=Hadouken!; 04-25-2006 at 05:21 PM.
"I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. And from this side only! The flight of a half-man, half-bird. Dinosaurs nuzzling their young in pastures where strip malls should be. Cookies on dowels. All those moment, lost in time. Gone, like eggs off a hooker's stomach. Time to die" -Phil Ken Sebben
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Originally Posted by keith edit: flawed, no option for; No, never over, Benedict XVI's dead body! etc
You didn't read the instructions. The poll is only to discern differences of opinion among those who DO think abortion is, at least sometimes, appropriate. Just because you have the right, that doesn't mean it is right.
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Posting Hound
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Originally Posted by D+F+P=Hadouken! I agree about this part, but when is she effecting another persons body? Is a fetus not a person? Choosing to end a pregnancy or remain pregnant is not an easy decision.
When does an embryo become a person?… Everyone has a different opinion. The mother being a person is not something that is debatable. We may not agree with the decisions all mothers make about their body, but I believe it should be her decision to make. Beer, it's whats for dinner! ~ a young snowboarding Canadian
The meek don't want it! ~ sticker on a rock band's guitar
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Senior Member
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Originally Posted by CountAntonio Abortion to me us ridiculous. I think It should be allowed to save the mothers life or in case of rape other than that it should be heavily penalized. Cause after all only an irrisponsible person doesnt use protection then gets an abortion as an easy out. What angers me is the fact that many women depend on abortion as a birth control method and do it time and time again. I dont think it should be out lawed but it should carry with it a punishment for those irresponsible people who abuse it. Agreed. About time we punish the MEN who got the woman pregnant.
How about garnishing wages from the men - the guy gets to count as one kid (he's not responsible) and each kid he fathered counts as one. So, now you've got N kids, and each gets 1/Nth of his income.
John Doe fathers 2 kids. He makes $30,000 (post tax... gotta pay taxes first). he gets $10,000 take home pay. Each kid gets $10,000 - to be given to primary caregiver, whether the mother, foster care, orphanage, etc. Oh, and he is required to pay ALL hospital and pre-natal costs for the birth of the kid in the first place. I believe current prices are around $7,000. Cash only, please.
Whenever John Doe is unable to make a payment, it gets backlogged, so that he just owes more - like a mortgage.
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Originally Posted by fencergrl Choosing to end a pregnancy or remain pregnant is not an easy decision.
When does an embryo become a person?… Everyone has a different opinion. The mother being a person is not something that is debatable. We may not agree with the decisions all mothers make about their body, but I believe it should be her decision to make. You didnt answer my question.
Last edited by D+F+P=Hadouken!; 04-25-2006 at 05:31 PM.
"I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. And from this side only! The flight of a half-man, half-bird. Dinosaurs nuzzling their young in pastures where strip malls should be. Cookies on dowels. All those moment, lost in time. Gone, like eggs off a hooker's stomach. Time to die" -Phil Ken Sebben
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Whether or not a fetus is a person has not been proven to anyone. Some will say it is, some will say it is not. Some will say that an egg, once fertilized, is a person, even though its only 2 cells.
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Posting Hound
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Originally Posted by D+F+P=Hadouken! You didnt answer my question. I did, I said everyone has a different opinion.
If you want to know what I believe.... I feel that when a child is born and physically separate from the mother's body, it becomes a separate person.
Last edited by Fencergrl; 04-25-2006 at 07:08 PM.
Beer, it's whats for dinner! ~ a young snowboarding Canadian
The meek don't want it! ~ sticker on a rock band's guitar
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Originally Posted by Fencergrl I did, I said everyone has a different opinion.
If you want to know what I believe.... I feel that when a child is born and physically separate from the mother's body, it becomes a separate person. So you think an abortion at 22 weeks is ok? Because it has yet to enter the world? "I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. And from this side only! The flight of a half-man, half-bird. Dinosaurs nuzzling their young in pastures where strip malls should be. Cookies on dowels. All those moment, lost in time. Gone, like eggs off a hooker's stomach. Time to die" -Phil Ken Sebben
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Posting Hound
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You asked me when a fetus becomes a person, not how far along I think a pregnacy should be allowed to go before it is terminated.
I am not a medical doctor, so I don't have an answer. This is a decision between the doctor and the woman.
The further along the pregnancy (I assume) the more complicated the procedure, therefore the more risk to the woman. At some point along the line (long before 9 months) it is not a good idea to have an abortion, and the mother should go full term.
Last edited by Fencergrl; 04-25-2006 at 07:09 PM.
Beer, it's whats for dinner! ~ a young snowboarding Canadian
The meek don't want it! ~ sticker on a rock band's guitar
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Moderator
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Originally Posted by D+F+P=Hadouken! So you think an abortion at 22 weeks is ok? Because it has yet to enter the world? And you don't?
And what business is it of yours?
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Senior Member
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Originally Posted by Gav And you don't?
And what business is it of yours? I think abortions, unless in the case of rape/incest/to save the mothers life, are wrong. A 22 week old fetus, aborted, is disgusting.
Per fencergrls logic, since the fetus is not a person (since it has not been born), it should be the mothers decision on whether or not to abort the child. "I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. And from this side only! The flight of a half-man, half-bird. Dinosaurs nuzzling their young in pastures where strip malls should be. Cookies on dowels. All those moment, lost in time. Gone, like eggs off a hooker's stomach. Time to die" -Phil Ken Sebben
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Posting Hound
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DFP.... LOL.... you're young enough to see the world in black and white. Beer, it's whats for dinner! ~ a young snowboarding Canadian
The meek don't want it! ~ sticker on a rock band's guitar
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Member
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I do agree the men who get the women pregnant should be held accountable too. As far as its the womans choice I think thats bull it takes two people to make a baby. And when it is abused as it is in modern day society by so many. Seriously I'd like to see the stats on the percentages of abortion done just out of irresponsibilty. I'm sorry but I cant agree abortion should be a last resort for extraordinary circumstances. The fetuses deserve a chance at life and its unfair too cut it short cause of your mistake. Theres always adoption. Hell they even made it legal to drop th baby of no questions asked at a hospital. "live in your world, Die in mine."
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Senior Member
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Originally Posted by Fencergrl You asked me when a fetus becomes a person, not how far along I think a pregnacy should be allowed to go before it is terminated.
I am not a medical doctor, so I don't have an answer. This is a decision between the doctor and the woman.
The further along the pregnancy (I assume) the more complicated the procedure, therefore the more risk to the woman. I didn't ask you for a medical consulation, I asked you whether or not, according to your beliefs, it is OK for a woman to have an abortion at 22 weeks, or for that matter, any time late in the pregnancy. I would assume that you think its OK, given that according to your stated beliefs, the fetus is not a person (because it has not been born), and it is her body, and her choice. "I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. And from this side only! The flight of a half-man, half-bird. Dinosaurs nuzzling their young in pastures where strip malls should be. Cookies on dowels. All those moment, lost in time. Gone, like eggs off a hooker's stomach. Time to die" -Phil Ken Sebben
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Moderator
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Originally Posted by D+F+P=Hadouken! I think abortions, unless in the case of rape/incest/to save the mothers life, are wrong. A 22 week pregnancy, aborted, is disgusting.
Per fencergrls logic, since the fetus is not a person (since it has not been born), it should be the mothers decision on whether or not to abort the child. What's your point?
Isn't it a decision for the mother? Isn't it her business? Why should someone you don't know even care what you think? What special information do you have (I assume you have a full command of biology: embryology, psychology, motherhood, fatherhood, sex and life in general) that you are able to judge what is right in such a case?
And if an abortion at 22 weeks is wrong, when isn't it? 21, 20, 19 ... 5, 4, 3, 2, 1 weeks? < 72hrs?
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