Let's Take a Lunch... Chinese Okay?

[chefencer]

What should U.S. strategy be for China? Currently, it seems we're maintaining advance-lunge distance: Mr Hu finally goes to Washington "Sorry, I've already made plans, how 'bout lunch?"... Is this stance appropriate or should we increase/decrease engagement?

Perhaps Hu's making plans for the President's next visit to China: http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060419/...a_starbucks_dc
Should Gates run in '08 (since he's apparently giving 'State' Dinners...)?
from a chinese perspective

[Slim]

I dont trust them (Chinese Government) any further than I can.....

People seem to forget that this is the same government that had no problems opening fire on their own unarmed students.

They are very, very dangerous and in my opinion the biggest long term threat to the US.

[Fencergrl]

Originally Posted by Slim

People seem to forget that this is the same government that

Yeah... like Americans have NEVER done that...

[Slim]

Originally Posted by Fencergrl

Yeah... like Americans have NEVER done that...

To a similar extent as what happend in Tienemen Square, no. It has never been done here.

[Fencergrl]

So the National Guard opening fire on students protesting at a Ohio University isn't

opening fire on their own unarmed students

OOOOOkay...... Based on your response, I won't ask how the War on Drugs is going....

[Slim]

Originally Posted by Fencergrl

So the National Guard opening fire on students protesting at a Ohio University isn't

OOOOOkay...... Based on your response, I won't ask how the War on Drugs is going....

I'm well aware of the comparison you are trying to make. There is very little similarity other than students were involved in a protest with armed military on the other side.

Kent state was the result of a few poorly trained national guardsmen being spooked. It was over in 13 seconds with 4 killed. It was definitely a tragic event.

Tienemen square was about highly trained troops ordered to begin shooting, resulting in thousands killed and 10's of thousands wounded. The shooting lasted for days.

The war on drugs is a waste of time and money. Nice try though.

[Fencergrl]

I think you’re splitting hairs…. Lots of countries have managed to not shoot at protesting students at all…. that was my point.

I agree that China is a threat (for the US) with what is developing economically. As China implements their changes, it’s going to affect the US. The biggest problem China’s having right now is being screwed by American companies…. go figure…

[Slim]

Originally Posted by Fencergrl

The biggest problem China’s having right now is being screwed by American companies…. go figure…

What on earth are you talking about? There is plenty of screwing going on, but its the US that's on the receiving end. Do a little research.

[Slim]

Originally Posted by Fencergrl

I think you’re splitting hairs…. Lots of countries have managed to not shoot at protesting students at all…. that was my point.

No, your point was that we are no better than the Chinese when it comes to putting down protesting students.

[Fencergrl]

Originally Posted by Slim

What on earth are you talking about? There is plenty of screwing going on, but its the US that's on the receiving end. Do a little research.

I often ask people about their countries of orgin. I know several people from mainland China. We discussed the changes, and how it was affecting their country.

From what I can gather, having American companies come into their country and take over businesses that were previously state owned was... an adjustment.

I don't read or see much of the American media, so I have no idea what you're talking about... I know of no Americans who have gone to China feel screwed by the country.

[chefencer]

He's probably referring to the trade deficit and intellectual property issues, while you're looking at globalization... but I can't expound right now...
-BRB

[Inquartata]

Originally Posted by Fencergrl

Lots of countries have managed to not shoot at protesting students at all….

OK. Which ones?

I'm betting that a diligent search would reveal that just about every country has some instances of this sort of thing somewhere in its past.

[kirinichiban]

"People seem to forget that this is the same government that had no problems opening fire on their own unarmed students."

well by that standard you shouldn't trust the mexican government either because of the masscare at the plaza of the 3 cultures in 1968.

but other than that, I do agree. China has for a long time used unfair economic practices, be it the government itself or companies with the government's blessing. In this I include keeping the yuan at a lower markert value than it should be to let them export goods cheaper and flood other markets, not protecting others intellectual property rights or just out right pirating..i.e. the chinese car industry, lack of safety standards or worker rights, and that doesn't even get into political injustice in China.

[chefencer]

How should the West (I'll include our neighbors...) deal with the New Kids On The (world) Block? Let me dredge up an old word - Detente - seems to be the current modus - leaving well enough alone. This wicket is pretty sticky, because we seem to be playing without a mallet - our economies are too dependent upon the Chinese - so it's difficult to woo/shame the ball across the lawn (no amount of finger waggling is likely to get us to our goal) and there isn't a realistic military option. How do you have a cold war with such a huge trading partner? Keeping an eye towards the seemingly inevitable future: how do we position ourselves favorably with the likely New Boss of Asia? I suppose we could just wait until China is completely McDonald-ized... (I knew all that work on exporting inane culture was good for something.)

[Fencergrl]

Originally Posted by Inquartata

OK. Which ones?

I'm betting that a diligent search would reveal that just about every country has some instances of this sort of thing somewhere in its past.

Don't have to look far... how about Canada? To my knowledge, our military has not shot at protesting students.

I made the comment because when I think of countries that had their military shoot at protesting students. 2 countries come to mind. This made Slim's reason to not trust China amusing.

If you are correct that "all the countries are shooting their students" then we agree that Slim's reason for not trusting China isn't a valid one.

[Epee_Pox]

I liked Jay Leno's take on statements about China and the US moving closer. Something like "China is moving towards democracy, meanwhile we're moving towards spying on our own people, imprisoning people without trial and building our own Great Wall."

[Slim]

Originally Posted by kirinichiban

"People seem to forget that this is the same government that had no problems opening fire on their own unarmed students."

well by that standard you shouldn't trust the mexican government either because of the masscare at the plaza of the 3 cultures in 1968.

but other than that, I do agree. China has for a long time used unfair economic practices, be it the government itself or companies with the government's blessing. In this I include keeping the yuan at a lower markert value than it should be to let them export goods cheaper and flood other markets, not protecting others intellectual property rights or just out right pirating..i.e. the chinese car industry, lack of safety standards or worker rights, and that doesn't even get into political injustice in China.

I dont trust the Mexican Govt.

[Slim]

Originally Posted by Fencergrl

I made the comment because when I think of countries that had their military shoot at protesting students. 2 countries come to mind. This made Slim's reason to not trust China amusing.

Try thinking a litte harder. Or doing a little research.

[Fencergrl]

I never said this hasn't happened in other countries, it was just the US and China were the first that came to my mind.

[chefencer]

Originally Posted by Epee_Pox

I liked Jay Leno's take on statements about China and the US moving closer. Something like "China is moving towards democracy, meanwhile we're moving towards spying on our own people, imprisoning people without trial and building our own Great Wall."

Ha! Ha! Tasty!