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TrainingDummy · 04-21-2006, 12:46 AM

I brought this up in another thread and decided to make my own. Anyone got any cheating stories, behaviors I should look out for? I am not talking ambiguous corps-a-corps or anything like that, I mean real, honest-to-god cheating. And, NO, I am not looking for tips on how to cheat. I just think that as fencers this is something that (unfortunately) we need to look out for.

penguin_2000 · 04-21-2006, 12:49 AM

I've heard of fencers using body cords with A-lines that can be "stretched" so they don't register...

TrainingDummy · 04-21-2006, 12:50 AM

Sorry, don't know what an "A-line" is.

Purple Fencer · 04-21-2006, 01:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrainingDummy

Sorry, don't know what an "A-line" is.

It's the line that goes t the alligator clip on a foil cord. in epee it's connected to one of the wires/

The classic cheating story is Boris Onishenko's magic epee at the 76 Olympics...French grip rigged with an additional pair or wires that could be shorted together to fire the light.

I don;t think tha ti was ever proven that HE was the rigger...he was an officer in the Soviet armed forces, and when the KGB guys tell you to cheat, you cheat unless you want to spend rest of life in gulag...there are some who thought he fired the light waaaay early on purpose so he would get caught without actually giving himself up.

ebonylevin · 04-21-2006, 02:05 AM

I have heard stories of people taking off their alligator clips, their opponents hitting them on target and then putting the clip back on before anyone can see what they're doing.
But now people have to have their bodywires under their fencing arm so it'd be pretty hard to do it these days.

felixduc · 04-21-2006, 03:04 AM

in foil there's the old quick-parry-into-the-floor-with-a-distance-parry if you find yourself confused by an opponent's attack

that'll get you a bad rep pretty quickly

Epee Scherma · 04-21-2006, 03:08 AM

I play a trick on my friend where I unplug his side of the reel... His touches never register in epee. It's hilarious.

Then he does it to me.... and it's not so funny anymore.

Purple Fencer · 04-21-2006, 03:09 AM

And in epee being fast enough on a lunge to kick out, hit your own foot to set off the light, and still hit your opponent.

TrainingDummy · 04-21-2006, 03:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Purple Fencer

It's the line that goes t the alligator clip on a foil cord. in epee it's connected to one of the wires/

The classic cheating story is Boris Onishenko's magic epee at the 76 Olympics...French grip rigged with an additional pair or wires that could be shorted together to fire the light.

Yeah, my coach told me about that one.

Mr Epee · 04-21-2006, 03:34 AM

effin amateurs.

You must know how to cheat so you can know how to win.

Thou shall not be cheated against.

KD5MDK · 04-21-2006, 05:36 AM

Tom and Susan were together, and had been since August, but come Summer Nationals time Tom started seeing this new foilist, Julie, on the side...

cs3dswb · 04-21-2006, 06:07 AM

i dont think that that is the sort of cheating he's on about.

Anyway in sabre one i have seen before is having a dodgy mask wire but when it comes to testing hold the mask so its slightly touching your jacket, thereby passing the test but 8/10 times failing in a match

KD5MDK · 04-21-2006, 06:35 AM

Which is why all wires should be checked and passed (if working) by an armorer...

As for my cheating story, well, it's been a while since I got rep, so I thought I'd give it a try.

yeoldearmourer · 04-21-2006, 06:51 AM

At a NAC where they were testing new epee ref they ask my my wife to be one of the fencers. So just to mess with them George K ask if I could put a switch in my wife epee. So I took a piece of wire run underneath the B socket and were my wife could used her thumb and press up against the A causing a valid touch. The referee never caught on to want was happening even when it went off 2 feet pass the other fencer or in the air. George would make commit about something was wrong on the strip. It was funny to watch. So her other weapon I had put a piece of mental flake in her tip it went off when ever the flake would shorted across the contacts. Neither one of them could be really identified has being done on purpose. One has a lousy wireing job the other as a dirty tip.

PeterGustafsson · 04-21-2006, 07:35 AM

Hi!

Quote:

Originally Posted by yeoldearmourer

Neither one of them could be really identified has being done on purpose. One has a lousy wireing job the other as a dirty tip.

Okaay... so, the ref gets the story that Mrs. Loomis had two bad armoury jobs at once - unintentional. Good luck in trying to get any ref or BC to swallow that one.

What did they say when you told that that you had pulled a prank on them?

Have a nice time!

Peter Gustafsson

ckovanda · 04-21-2006, 12:44 PM

I've heard one about putting clear fingernail polish on the bottom half of an epee tip. when testing an opponent's bell, you hit underneath allowing the uncoated top half of your tip to make contact. while fencing, your flicks to the top of their bell would go off.

another one I heard that is probably a fencing urban legend is where a fencer, between touches, removes his mask to wipe sweat or somesuch, does a quick pick of the nose...tests his weapon real quick with his thumb(transferring the booger to his epee tip)... next touch to the bell is his.

fencerbill · 04-21-2006, 01:11 PM

I find either the "booger" or the nail polish unlikely to be effective. Bell impacts are usually pretty hard, note how marked up bells are. The impact would probably go right through the "coating" and make contact anyway.

sah62 · 04-21-2006, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Purple Fencer

And in epee being fast enough on a lunge to kick out, hit your own foot to set off the light, and still hit your opponent.

I had that happen to me twice in a bout while fencing in collegiate dual meet, except that the "hit your opponent" part didn't happen. The ref was apparently watching the lights both times. I politely asked him about the action after the first one and was told to get en garde. He missed a second one when my opponent was something like 10 feet away and the light went off at the start of a fleche. Talk about frustrating!

yeoldearmourer · 04-21-2006, 01:22 PM

Well the referee testing that day didn't get his rated because he was not paying attention to what was going on the strip and not seeing the action that cause the touch because it was pretty clear that these touches was not on the fencer. The one with the metal flake help me 2 years later when Uhlmann barrels started to flake off and causing the same problems and my wife was refereeing the bout at the time then pass it along to Dan and several others armourers the problems with the Uhlmann barrels flake off. I took the weapon which I had just rewire for the person with a new barrel and pull the tip and turn the weapon upside down and several flakes fell out on the towel. Using a dental pick i was able to clean it by scrape the inside of the barrel. Uhlmann had switch manufactor of there barrels

DHCJr · 04-21-2006, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Purple Fencer

The classic cheating story is Boris Onishenko's magic epee at the 76 Olympics...French grip rigged with an additional pair or wires that could be shorted together to fire the light.

This is a falacy. It was NOT a French grip, it was an orthopedic, which is the reason for the tape rule only being applied to orthopedic and not French. This was a professional job with a switch (not a pressure, but a capacitance) was molded into the handle.