Coaching Students with Disabilities

[SJB]

I bring this up because recently I was doing an outreach program at a private high school for kids with disabilities (read: mom and dad pay thousands of dollars a year to make sure Jenny/Johnny gets into a semi-decent university) where the kids had a host of learning disabilities.

The kids weren't bad per se but were among the least involved kids I've ever taught, obviously because of their condition and also because it's a high school phys. ed. class and not a dedicated fencing class.

Since they got to grade themselves, ex. the teacher walks in and goes "what grade do you feel you deserve?" " .... 80 ... totally 80", their level of participation didn't matter much.

However, in the classes I teach at my club I've got a couple of students with disabilities. The first has a host of physical impairments that prevent him from being able to bend his knees, lunge properly for one. The other has ausberger's and has to be told everything repeatedly, a minimum of three times per action or per bout.

Now, I should stress I'm not against kids with learning disabilities/adverse physical coniditions taking up fencing.

However, I am against those kids parent's putting them in fencing because they a) aren't good at other sports and b) since fencing is an "other other" sport their kids will obviously be better at it then hockey, soccer, basketball.

My question is, what strategy do you utilize to teach these kids effectively given their limitations?

And how do you do this in a manner that it does not compromise the rest of the student's experiences? ex. Teaching these kids takes far more time than the ones who don't require special attention.

[D+F+P=Hadouken!]

I worked with a guy who had cerebral palsy, and some mild retardation.

I can honestly say it was one of the most frustrating experiences of my life, trying to teach someone who had no coordination, and had trouble understanding instructions. I can also say that it greatly increased my appreciation of anyone who succesfully works with handicapped individuals.

The only advice I can give you is to be patient, and not to be particularly vested in whether or not they succeed in the sport, because they most likely will not. Its not worth the anguish. Just make it so they can have fun.

[MyrddinsPrecint]

I could write a book on autism*. Almost literally. In fact, it has been said that a fairly accurate test of whether a male of my approximate age range is autistic is whether or not I've dated him. When I worked at a summer camp, the camp director would purposely funnel all the special needs kids the camp had into my courses, because she knew I was better equipped to deal with them than anyone else my age. It was a nice complement, but when I had 8 10 year old boys playing an RPG, one with autism, one with oppositional defiant disorder, one with Aspergers, and two with heavy ADHD.... and I was the only staff member in the room.... It wasn't so much a complement anymore.

(Aspergers is a form of autism on the "high" functioning side of the spectrum).

With autistic kids, what's very important is to SAY EVERYTHING. If they're not doing what they're supposed to be doing, and you're frustrated with them, do not expect that they will ever understand that unless you say "I am frustrated with you because you are not doing what you are supposed to be doing." You have to make things THAT CLEAR. Most kids with Aspergers will eventually start to pick up on social cues, but that really only starts (for most of them) after middle school. If they're in late elementary school or middle school, you really can't expect anything.

They won't understand why the other kids don't want to fence with them. They won't understand why they shouldn't do something. They won't understand why you're angry with them. Explain everything. EVERYTHING.

They will probably have voice volume issues. If they're being loud, tell them that. They probably don't know. They will probably get overwhelmed easily. Ask their parents if they have any particular sensory triggers-- some kids can't concentrate if there's a lot of noise, or a lot of bright colors, others find loud environments or bright colors help them concentrate. Obviously it's difficult to change a fencing space for one kid, but if lessons are away from the bright red poster, that might actually help a lot. Also, it's best to have a place away from people that they can calm down in if they get worked up. It's usually best for it to be quiet, separate from others, and cool.

They will often not relate two events that seem VERY similar to most people. So if you say "take one step back and parry" and that's what they're used to, taking two steps back and then parrying might be something totally new for them to learn.



On one hand, if you get the 8 year old autistic, there's usually not a whole lot you can do. They're like a really really buggy computer program--- you need to feed in a lot more input before what problems there are show up, and they have to show up before they can possibly get fixed.

On the other hand, if you get the 15 or 16 year old with Aspergers, you may have just created a wonderful investment. Part of the Aspergers part of the autistic spectrum is an insatiable desire to learn EVERYTHING about their chosen interest. They want to know every rule, every technique, every opponent, ever bit of how to fix weapons.... Since they often don't really have many close friends, they'll have lots of time and motivation to devote to gathering the depth of knowledge that it takes most people decades to gain. Just keep feeding them information.


I could talk about this for hours. I have, in the past. I have a very autistic like obsession with autistics.... : )





* There is debate about whether "autism" ought to be capitalized or not, either is acceptable, although it usually says something about what you think about it. Usually "Autism" is thought of as a disorder that can and should be cured, and autism is a part of who/what someone is, that should be worked around, but not fundamentally changed.

[D+F+P=Hadouken!]

Raise your hand if you love aspergers.


*raises hand*

Yeah, you guessed it, I have aspergers.

[MyrddinsPrecint]

(now that i've gone to see the free presentation of Narnia put on my school....)


The other thing of note abou the lovable Aspergers kids is that, at a certain point, the social learning curve goes WAY up.

So, the 13 year old who was really really really annoying and socially inept, as time goes on, becomes fairly ept. still quirky...... but eventually a productive member of society. or your fencing club. or your internet forum...


*cough*

[ebonylevin]

I coach about a dozen people with some form of disability mainly ADHD but also aspergers, deafness, CF, and a major heart disorder. For the ones with the inability to listen for long periods of time I find that you have to be really supportive, explain things clearly and to their understanding. Also get them to repeat back to you what the instructions were to check if they were listening. If they are being right so and so's stop, wait for them to shut up, give them a "look" and then continue on and if they keep doing it inquire if having a break would suit them. If they say yes dont let them, if they say no, threaten them with a time out if they mess up again. You basically ahve to be supportive and totally patient.
As for the parents who bung their kids into fencing cos it may be the only thing they can do. They might be right fencing is reat for social mis-fits, it teaches self disipline and behaviour skills. Though my one question is why fencing? one of the potentially most dangerous sports. Hmmm

[El Chucko]

#1 - I raise my hand to DFP. I'll buy you a beer if I ever meet you in person (when you're 21, of course ). It would not surprise me at all if I were to find out that an unusually high percentage of fencers had Aspergers'. I think that it appeals to some of the manifestations of the syndrome.

#2 - I worked in group homes for over 5 years with adults that were "autistic." Many of them had other diagnoses in addition to "autism" (MR, etc.), but it was a great job. I loved those guys. Of course, it was a job you either love or HATE. Some people just don't react well to, um... let's just say I have some great stories.

#3 - "Autism" is being criminally over-diagnosed these days. Not every kid that is disabled, socially mal-adjusted, or just plain different is autistic. I think that it has somehow become almost trendy, maybe because autism has thus far managed to avoid some of the stigmas that are associated with other disabilities. Maybe it's easier to tell a mother that her kid has autism than it is to tell them they have retardation or some other disorder. All I know is that it does more harm than good.

#4 - Teaching people with disabilities can be great, but it is not for everyone. The only advice I can give is this. First, communicate ALOT with their parents, other teachers, doctors, physical therapists, everyone. Second, keep your standards as high as possible, but be realistic. Third, keep your eyes on the prize: fun and personal growth. They might not be able to even lunge, but, who cares? Are they learning SOMETHING? Are they having FUN? Are YOU becoming a more patient and organized coach? Great! Mission accomplished.

[MyrddinsPrecint]

Originally Posted by El Chucko

#3 - "Autism" is being criminally over-diagnosed these days. Not every kid that is disabled, socially mal-adjusted, or just plain different is autistic. I think that it has somehow become almost trendy, maybe because autism has thus far managed to avoid some of the stigmas that are associated with other disabilities. Maybe it's easier to tell a mother that her kid has autism than it is to tell them they have retardation or some other disorder. All I know is that it does more harm than good.

bull****.


The problem is not that autism is overdiagnosed. The people who are diagnosed with autism really do fit the criteria as given by the DSM. The problem is that autism is such a vauge blanket diagnosis that covers so many people with VASTLY different problems.

Autism is a spectrum-- on one side, you have people whose bodies don't translate information well, so they can't effectively deal with their environments-- but if they could get the right information to the right parts of their brain, they know what to do with it. On the other side, you've got the people who are getting all the information, they just can't effectively process it. Most people who get the "autism" diagnosis are somewhere in the middle.

But the word "autism" doesn't tell you much about how to deal with the people themselves. It gives you cues on what questions to ask, but it doesn't give you any automatic answers.


It is very difficult to thrust an autism diagnosis on an ordinary mal-adjusted kid. On the other hand, a lot of the teaching techniques that work really well with autistic kids usually work really well with the ordinary mal-adjusted kids. any time i'm stressed/upset/overwhelmed, I have specifically told my close friends specific things to do--- they're all things I learned from reading about/working with autistic kids.


Most kids, normal or not, don't really understand social interations really well. It hurts no one to be very very specific and literal. Even the "normal" kids get something out of it.



Oh, and autism used to be blamed on your mother. Much like schizophrenia. And that stigma is still there. The newer fad is to blame it on getting vaccines, which indirectly blames the parents. (Research has failed to consistantly show a link between the two-- there was one study, maybe a year ago, that showed a correlation, but that was the first widely accepted study that did, and I didn't get a chance to look at methedology, or look at how strong the correlation is..... which is to say, I don't really have any information.)


What is being massively overmedicated (although maybe not overdiagnosed) is ADD and ADHD. it often makes more sense to change learning environments than to stick kids on medication..... I say this as someone with fairly intense ADD that wasn't diagnosed until my senior year of high school. I survived that long by being careful about how I structured my environment, and while medication has been massively helpful, it's more important that the overall structure of my life is planned than whether or not I've taken my medication that day....




If you have strep throat, you get a culture, you see if there's the bacteria in your body, and it's a yes or no kind of thing. and you know exactly what is caused by the bacteria and what's not. You can easily put a label on what's wrong.

Psychological disorders are much messier. Most of the time, we don't know why. All we can do is lump people who are kind of similar into categories. Sometimes two people have the same diagnosis, but very different problems with very different causes. Or the same problem with very different causes. Or very different problems with the same causes. It's not an easy simple label.

Is there something wrong with the guy who hears voices? Most people would say yes. Almost everyone would admit it's not "neurotypical". But what is neurotypical? How do you even begin to define it?

This isn't strep throat-- it's not neat, or easy. You can't expect it to be.

[RoninX]

Originally Posted by MyrddinsPrecint

bull****.


The problem is not that autism is overdiagnosed. The people who are diagnosed with autism really do fit the criteria as given by the DSM. The problem is that autism is such a vauge blanket diagnosis that covers so many people with VASTLY different problems....

You clearly know alot about this subject, and care alot about it. I know very little but agree with all the general points of your post. However, nothing that you said refutes the fact that incorrect diagnoses of ANYthing does more harm than good IMHO. Now in some circumstances incorrect diagnoses might to do more good than NO diagnosis but in many cases it can be very harmful and sometimes fatal. The poster's example of Autism being easier news to give then retardation is the worst kind of "misdiagnosis" and should never be encouraged no matter the outcome.

[MyrddinsPrecint]

Originally Posted by RoninX

You clearly know alot about this subject, and care alot about it. I know very little but agree with all the general points of your post. However, nothing that you said refutes the fact that incorrect diagnoses of ANYthing does more harm than good IMHO. Now in some circumstances incorrect diagnoses might to do more good than NO diagnosis but in many cases it can be very harmful and sometimes fatal. The poster's example of Autism being easier news to give then retardation is the worst kind of "misdiagnosis" and should never be encouraged no matter the outcome.

I was misdiagnosed with Generalized Anxiety Disorder. I was put on antidepressants, which had horrible side effects and did nothing to help any of the problems I was actually having. That misdiagnosis hurt me a great deal.

Had I been misdiagnosed with, say, Aspergers, the problems wouldn't have been nearly as bad. There is no standard drug cocktail associated with autism--- there are certain drugs that will help certain autistic people with specific symptoms/problems--- One possible solution is antidepressants, but it's not looked at as a cure-all the way it is with Generalized Anxiety Disorder.

Autism usually implies that there may be other appropriate diagnoses- often it's linked to ADHD in high functioning autistics, and it's also linked to depression. To say nothing of the other potential disorders you can be characterized as having. Generalized Anxiety Disorder, Schizophrenia, and a variety of other diagnoses are looked at too often as THE diagnosis, rather than ONE OF the diagnoses.

As wrong diagnoses go, autism's actually not nearly as harmful as others....

Obviously, it's best to be diagnosed with what you actually have.

My point was more that a "neurotypical" but kind of weird kid who gets a diagnosis of autism isn't really that worse off.

[RoninX]

Originally Posted by MyrddinsPrecint

Obviously, it's best to be diagnosed with what you actually have.

My point was more that a "neurotypical" but kind of weird kid who gets a diagnosis of autism isn't really that worse off.

Fair enough, thank you for the information.

[MyrddinsPrecint]

Originally Posted by ebonylevin

If they are being right so and so's stop, wait for them to shut up, give them a "look" and then continue on and if they keep doing it inquire if having a break would suit them. If they say yes dont let them, if they say no, threaten them with a time out if they mess up again. You basically ahve to be supportive and totally patient.

Ah yes, because offering them a break and then not letting them take it if they need it, or alternatively threatening them is the definition of "supportive and totally patient"???

There is a difference between the kid who just doesn't WANT to concentrate anymore (at which point they can be gently pushed a bit) and the kid who really can't concentrate anymore, and needs a break. 8 year olds are unlikly to be able to judge that themselves, the other they are, the more likly they'll know that themselves........ and it's REALLY difficult to judge as an outsider if you don't know the kid really really well.

[Point_Left]

SJB, I would suggest that you e-mail the U of A fencing club in Edmonton. We've done some similar programs with disabled kids. I don't know exactly what was done, but the club president will no doubt give you the e-mail of one of the two fencers who have generally run these things. I think that there were ten or more kids, but I couldn't tell you much more. It is part of some "community outreach" type thing. I know that some of the kids were in wheelchairs and such, but since I wasn't coaching them I'm not sure about the range and type of disabilities that were encountered.

Or, if you will be at provincials, just corner one of the U of A women's sabre fencers tommorow. You'll have a 2/3 chance of picking out an executive member...

[sabreteur]

I keep telling my coach that he ought to write a book about traing fencers with learning disabilities.

He just shrugs, and says something to the effect that no one woulld buy it since coachess already know fencing students are all brain damaged.

Before anyone gets too outraged, I myself have ADD. Any of the rest of you live in fear of drug testing? Hey look... string!

[MyrddinsPrecint]

Originally Posted by sabreteur

Before anyone gets too outraged, I myself have ADD. Any of the rest of you live in fear of drug testing? Hey look... string!

..i just don't go to events that would ever test me

i prefer to not fail out of school... just a thing...

[ebonylevin]

Originally Posted by MyrddinsPrecint

Ah yes, because offering them a break and then not letting them take it if they need it, or alternatively threatening them is the definition of "supportive and totally patient"???

There is a difference between the kid who just doesn't WANT to concentrate anymore (at which point they can be gently pushed a bit) and the kid who really can't concentrate anymore, and needs a break. 8 year olds are unlikly to be able to judge that themselves, the other they are, the more likly they'll know that themselves........ and it's REALLY difficult to judge as an outsider if you don't know the kid really really well.

Yes but what I meant was if theyre wanting a break just to get out of the fencing. I would only tell them to get on with it if they were messing around to be annoying. If I can tell that they are lacking in concentration I give them a break.