Fencing.Net - Your Guide to Fencing & Fencing Equipment

peet · 04-20-2006, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oiuyt

How about actually THROWING the weapon at someone. Or, in the example cited multiple times in this thread, using a french grip, starting an attack, tossing the weapon, and catching it again a couple of inches later.

These are what that rule covers. Weird grip styles have nothing whatsoever to do with the weapon becoming airborne and don't have any connection to this rule.

-B

Yeah, ok, maybe you're right. I still think it'd be more fun to cite a wacko rule telling a wacko fencer that he can't hold the weapon that wacko way.

still, the title of that section of the rules is "method of holding the weapon"...

OKOK Enough!

cheers!

-p

KD5MDK · 04-20-2006, 03:49 PM

I'm all for applying rarely used penalties when appropriate. However, "disorderly fencing" hasn't been used yet (by me) so that's next on my list.

hammockbear · 04-24-2006, 04:24 PM

hey guys this forum has kind of gotten off topic so if you guys want to keep talking "ssian strong arm" go ahead but if you have an actual story for me then please pm me the story thanks alot.
in the russian strong arm is it held in a back hand style?
~hammockbear~

hammockbear · 04-24-2006, 04:28 PM

accoring to the rules i belive a fencer must be in en gaurde properly before the match can begin. and if the grip is switched it could be penalized as a throw.

LeftHanded · 04-24-2006, 04:37 PM

I agree with hammockbear. THis forum has changed topics totally. If you want to talk about the Russian StrongArm or whatever then start another thread but don't flood a good topic with pointless off topic stuff. Let's do it somewhere else. This is the third or forth thread that I have seen in the limited time I've been here that is totally off topic.

bezoar · 04-24-2006, 04:45 PM

Dear Lefthanded,

Even Hilary new to keep a low profile when she was the new kid on the block in the senate. Don't sass your elders.

Besides, flight of ideas, as exhibited on this thread, is associated more with bipolar disorder than ADD.

rcmatthews · 04-24-2006, 05:07 PM

This is the way that fencing.net is. Everything goes offtopic enventually. This is the way great discussions are created. Get used to it.

RITFencing · 04-24-2006, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hammockbear

hey guys this forum has kind of gotten off topic so if you guys want to keep talking "ssian strong arm" go ahead but if you have an actual story for me then please pm me the story thanks alot.
in the russian strong arm is it held in a back hand style?
~hammockbear~

The "Russian Strong Arm Technique" does invovle reversing one's grip on a weapon, yes. It's also phenominally stupid, and the two who swore by it weren't exactly NAC material...

Anyway, while the thread did go off topic, there's a very valuable lesson in how it did. Notice that it basically turned into some very competent referees and fencers talking about how a very unorthodox technique used by some newbies is ineffective, unsafe and against the rules. It's something to take to heart for the beginner fencer. Take a look at the recurring theme of the other thread you started here for some very good advice.

Happy fencing.

LeftHanded · 04-24-2006, 09:53 PM

So your saying to stay quiet till I get a feel for the forums, I'll try it. Don't get me wrong I'm not sassing anyone. If a topic is on unorthidox moves then it seems to me that the thread should stay on unorthadox moves. I think it is ok to have it go a little off topic such as this Strongarm deal. It is an unorthadox way to use a blade but that topic has consumed the entirity of the thread. Wouldn't it be a better Idea to post a totally new thread than to just divert a thread. It would give more views to a specific topic while not flooding a thread with irrelavent material. I am not arguing or trying to mouth off but just trying to make some logic out of the situation and help the forums be a little more organized.

LeftHanded

thud · 04-25-2006, 03:41 AM

Well, these two videos show my favorite "unorthodox moves:"
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...encing&pl=true
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...+split&pl=true

On second thought, that first one is a classic parry-riposte, so nevermind.

What I don't have a video of is my friend's "off-the-wall" lunge, which is exactly what it sounds like. High-flying epeeists forever!

knave · 04-25-2006, 08:33 AM

I once played around with a reverse passata-sotto, where the rear leg went forward as you dropped and you land on your hand behind your butt. Figured it was not very useful.

Craziest thing I've seen was a guy fencing in a divisionals bout I was refereeing. He was very athletic but had neglected to learn much of the "fencing" part of fencing. What he would do was do a deep lunge, then if parried do a high 4 and arc his back, nearly turning back and proceed to jab again. Nothing to crazy there, but one exchange he did that, then forward recovered into a low crouch and spun around unter his opponents attempted ripose then remised. I gave him a card for turning back, of course.

AllenJ · 04-25-2006, 02:50 PM

About 8-10 years ago I did sport fencing. Since then I've been doing WMA (western martial arts). On a spur of a moment whim a buddy of mine invited me to come with him in an open sport fencing tournament. I had not participated in a tournament in about 5 years. First bout, first point (epee) my opponent rushed in fast on me. Instinct took over and did an off hand parry and then performed a beautiful disarm. Needless to say I was penalized and was not the judges favorite for that day.

LeftHanded · 04-25-2006, 04:01 PM

Thats cool. Disarm? Oh well
I have this one "stance" where I squat so low that my butt almost touches the ground. I can move just well as a regular En Guarde. This way I can lower my target area and get arm, leg and bib touches easier. People just get confused and go for the head leaving alot open.
I also have one move where I go into the warning zone and just stand there. I have my blade down and everything open. As soon as they come even fairly close I can bolt out with speed thought to be impossible from that kind of stance. I get the touch 8 out of 10 times.

Valerio Versace · 04-25-2006, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeftHanded

Thats cool. Disarm? Oh well
I have this one "stance" where I squat so low that my butt almost touches the ground. I can move just well as a regular En Guarde. This way I can lower my target area and get arm, leg and bib touches easier. People just get confused and go for the head leaving alot open.
I also have one move where I go into the warning zone and just stand there. I have my blade down and everything open. As soon as they come even fairly close I can bolt out with speed thought to be impossible from that kind of stance. I get the touch 8 out of 10 times.

Yea, I knew a guy who did just the same... I think his name was Kent... Clark, or something.

AllenJ · 04-25-2006, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeftHanded

Thats cool. Disarm? Oh well

basically this:
http://www.donaldheald.com/search/de...&ordernr=12309

thud · 04-25-2006, 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AllenJ

basically this:
http://www.donaldheald.com/search/de...&ordernr=12309

Nice heinies, those gents.

fencingfrog · 04-25-2006, 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valerio Versace

Yea, I knew a guy who did just the same... I think his name was Kent... Clark, or something.

omg!
we have a fencer at our club named kent and my first time ever doing a drill with him, he goes 'hold still a sec' and knocked my foil halfway across the flippin' room!!!
actually, i've realized he's the sith lord. he always tells me to 'release the beast'. should that be part of my sig?

on topic...anyway...
my other friend will stand there during open bout, arms spread apart and start going 'oooh, on target, nice, on target...' until you attack or wait like 3 min. its ridiculous, but most people are pissed off enough to attack. then he just parry ripostes.

Valerio Versace · 04-26-2006, 08:32 AM

By the way... my unhortodox move is the fleche to the foot. When I tell most people that, sometimes, I pull it off, they think that I fleche and let my point drop on my opponent's foot while passing him. Actually, I usually feint high, then drop my arm, fully extend it and aim directly for the foot, getting pretty much "horizontal", dropping in the direction of the floor. It's more or less useless, risky and hardly effective, but I like to try it sometimes because it's funny, especially when people try a stop-hit on my back (which is fully exposed) or my ass and land flat, while I maim their foot.
Works on a lot of noobs.

slowgraffiti515 · 04-27-2006, 01:01 AM

my coach does this weird thing when, if he knows your going to cut head, he ducks, takes the parry, whips the blade around and cuts you.

he did it when i first started fencing and it was scary

gladius · 04-27-2006, 03:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valerio Versace

By the way... my unhortodox move is the fleche to the foot ... I usually feint high, then drop my arm, fully extend it and aim directly for the foot, getting pretty much "horizontal", dropping in the direction of the floor. It's more or less useless, risky and hardly effective, but I like to try it sometimes because it's funny ...

The action described -- feint high and touch to the foot -- could end with a lunge, but if it ends with a fleche then it is executed from a greater distance making this (attempted) hit totally illogical. A kid could touch the "flecher" on the mask just by extending his arm.

Even if Valerio had a choice in tempo, speed and fluidity in his moves which combine all the best qualities of Kolobkov, Golubitsky, Sanzo, Szabo, and Vezzali put together, he could touch sooner, much sooner, in many different and more intelligent ways than with a fleche to the foot.

Unfortunately this is the typical behavior of one who plays at fencing with buddies of his caliber who have fun in acting dumb, and disorderly, typical of youngsters who have started fencing rather late (late teens). Any coach after witnessing such behavior will put an immediate stop to it.

A fleche to the foot is likely to cause a hole in the foot of the poor guy at the receiving end. Therefore it can really hurt. It is a useless and dangerous action that anyone with half a brain functioning should avoid. Any action that can result in a high probability of an injury is to be avoided even if it is not expressly forbidden by the rules. A touch to the foot is one thing, and even that sometime can hurt quite a bit if performed by a strong hitter. But a fleche to the foot with the momentum of the charge ... no further comment!