Zip Tips

[gh02t]

What do you guys think of Zipfencing's screwless epee tips?
I saw somebody who had one at a tournament last week and they seemed pretty nice and they are cheaper than Estoc and way cheaper than Schermasport.
Do the little plastic collars break alot? That was the main problem I wanted to ask about, they seem kinda fragile.
Thanks

[KD5MDK]

There was a lot of interest when they first came out. Then, a lot of early adopters reported that they were breaking quickly. There were some recent reports that was due to a manufacturing defect, which presumably has been remedied, but not being an epeeist I don't know for sure.

[HDG]

You might have a look at this thread.

[larkmaj]

They are working on the problems. I'm not completely sure what is going on with them. However, one of them attended or recent tournament and was discussing the designs with another club member. I think they are considering metal instead of plastic. Though I'm not sure.

[Mergs]

I looked at these and talked to theZiptip folks at the Pittsburgh and it seems to me that their problem was in the way the slots that form the part that bends ends in a squared off cut. The corners of this squared cut create stress concentration areas and promote breakage. I suggested a U-shaped bottom to this area. Don't know if they took it or not.

Great idea, though!

[epeeisky]

I looked at these and talked to theZiptip folks at the Pittsburgh and it seems to me that their problem was in the way the slots that form the part that bends ends in a squared off cut. The corners of this squared cut create stress concentration areas and promote breakage. I suggested a U-shaped bottom to this area. Don't know if they took it or not.

Great idea, though!

I think they did. I bought one about a month ago and it is holding up very well. I have not had to touch that epee to fix it since I got the zip tips. They can be a little difficult to set originally though.

As to the original question, The plastic collar has slightly deformed a bit over the last month, but it still works fine. I am yet to see if they will last long enough to justify the cost though.

[telkanuru]

I looked at these and talked to theZiptip folks at the Pittsburgh and it seems to me that their problem was in the way the slots that form the part that bends ends in a squared off cut. The corners of this squared cut create stress concentration areas and promote breakage. I suggested a U-shaped bottom to this area. Don't know if they took it or not.

Great idea, though!

Additionally, if the plasic is created through injection molding, angles do some fun things with thermodynamics in fluids under pressure, causing weakening and divots in plastic. This is quite apparent if you examine a plastic army soldier closely. The effect can be reduced by injecting at higher pressure, but that increases cost, etc, etc. All in all, metal is by far the best solution.

[KD5MDK]

I don't suppose their design uses plastic for its insulating properties at any point.

[Purple Fencer]

I don't suppose their design uses plastic for its insulating properties at any point.

All epee tips use plastic for that purpose...if you've ever taken a standard screw tip apart, there's the outer metal, an inner plastic, and the inner metal that forms the actual tip. The outer metal covering really serves one purpose...to give something to tap for the retaining screws.

Since the Zip Tip design doesn't use actual screws, there was no need for the outer metal covering.

[KD5MDK]

Right. However, not having a zip tip in front of me, I couldn't say whether the design allowed for metal arms and the insulating layer without changing the entire design.

[telkanuru]

The outer plastic is comparatively thick in order to fit into a regular barrel and also to provide strength for the retaining bits. Switching back to a 3-layer design would not particularly compromise the design.

[rac]

I converted my daughters weapons to Zip Tips about 4 months ago. She uses them daily 3-4x a week and so far so good. Mind you she is a junior and probably not as rough on the tips as a heavy hitter might be but they sure make life easy.

[The Incredible Ike]

I was wondering, do they make ziptips for foil??

-The Incredible Ike

[rac]

I was wondering, do they make ziptips for foil??

-The Incredible Ike

No.

rac

[MyrddinsPrecint]

No.

rac

Would the foil tips actually be any more difficult than the epee tips to make, or is it more to do with the fact that I've never had a foilist hand me a weapon complaining that they lost a screw, and could I please please please in between sabre bouts fix it?


{I just fix the damn things, I routinely forget or actively avoid knowing how they work, for fear that I be expected to fix even more of their gear...}

[larkmaj]

Would the foil tips actually be any more difficult than the epee tips to make

Yes they would. It's kinda hard to explain why especially if you don't know much about a foil tip, but it would be much more difficult to design and make a similar tip for foil.

[rac]

Would the foil tips actually be any more difficult than the epee tips to make, or is it more to do with the fact that I've never had a foilist hand me a weapon complaining that they lost a screw, and could I please please please in between sabre bouts fix it?


{I just fix the damn things, I routinely forget or actively avoid knowing how they work, for fear that I be expected to fix even more of their gear...}

I am assuming a bit but I am guessing that the reason it is tricky is that the foil tips are smaller thus less material to work with and more fragile.

rac

[larkmaj]

I am assuming a bit but I am guessing that the reason it is tricky is that the foil tips are smaller thus less material to work with and more fragile.

rac

It has to do with the fact that a foil tip is a normally closed circuit between the barrel and the contact on the end of the wire. It is very hard to do without screws serving as the connection between the tip and barrel. Granted, there are screwless foil tips, but they all have their own point systems.

Another thing that makes a zip tip easier in epee is the design of the epee point is relatively universal, so most of the parts are interchangeable to a certain extent. There can be a tip that will fit in most all epee barrels and work decently well. Very much not the case in foil.

[MyrddinsPrecint]

Another thing that makes a zip tip easier in epee is the design of the epee point is relatively universal, so most of the parts are interchangeable to a certain extent. There can be a tip that will fit in most all epee barrels and work decently well. Very much not the case in foil.

Yes, but that only works if you're leisurely fixing secondary weapons some day you have too much free time. Epee parts are never universal when you are at a collegiate meet where you started the day with 8 working epees, and now there are three of you and two consistently working epees, and part of that may or may not be one of the reels, but it's so inconsistent that you can't really tell what's going on.......

That's when none of the parts are interchangeable :P

[Purple Fencer]

I am assuming a bit but I am guessing that the reason it is tricky is that the foil tips are smaller thus less material to work with and more fragile.

rac

Actually, the major problem with using a Zip-Tip type setup for foil is that the connection between the screws and teh collar in the foil tip MUST be firm and stable.

The scoring boxes are sophisticated pieces of equipment...but they're also vert very dumb. They don't know or care WHERE the circuit break in foil is -- it could be a properly depressed tip, a break in the wire, a loose grip or barrel, or corrosion in the ends of the spring.

The screws are part of the corcuit, as they are the connection between teh collar and the barrel.

Let's say you use a ZT type pf pin setup in place of teh screws...you take a beat...the tip rattles...the box may see a circuit break just as in a loose barrel or grip....white light.

I've seen the same thing happen with someone tho used german screws in a french barrel and tip. Sure, the screw/collar connection was solid, but not so the screw/barrel one...kept getting off targets until i replaced the german screws with french ones.