Do you use glue accelerator?

[PeterGustafsson]

Hi!


Do you use glue accelerator when you glue with cyanoacrylate glue?

Have you found any place where the accelerator is sold on its own, without glue?

I buy gooey cyanoacrylate in a hobby shop, and the price is quite good - 40 Sw. Kr for 50 grams. When one buys CA glue in other places, the price is often 30 Sw. Kr for 3 grams. The problem with the the big bottle is that the thin tip has gotten gunked up by solidified glue, so I have to use a cotton-swab tip (the kind they sell in packages of 200 or so in the hygiene/makeup part of the supermarket) to get out glue and get it out in the epee groove. The problem with this method is that I don´t get the glue precisely where I want it, so I end up using too much glue, and the result is not good looking. Any suggestions?

When I recently got an accelerator pen with a 3gram CA glue tube, the result was much better. However, once that tube is empty, I will have to use the big glue container again, and I do not now know how to get the glue out of it and in the groove with pinpoint precision.


Have a nice time!

Peter Gustafsson

[epeeisky]

Go to a beauty store and look for some hair coloring bottles. Those types of stores sell hair coloring bottles that have some very fine tips, and all you woyld have to do is put a pin in the whole to keep it from clogging up when not in use.

[Purple Fencer]

I'm currenty using an acceleratot called NCF, which is water-based (I was gettign a white film on the glue with the oil-based stuff I was using previously. Didn't affect the bond, but it looked ugly.)

I buy it from a local hobby store...either a small plastic bottle with the stuff in liquid form, or an aerosol bottle that I spray into a bottle. If I try to spray the stuff onto a blade, I'll waste it, so I dip a Q-tip into the bottle and run it down the blade instead.

[brtech]

The real question is WHY are you using an accellerant?

If you are wiring a blade for someone, say, between pools and DE's, it's is favorite weapon, and he just HAS to have that one to start his first DE, then I can see an accellerant being useful. Otherwise, I don't understand why you would use it.

You should be using the fast, thin CA. It sets in about 60 seconds. It's strong enough to use hard in about an hour. I usally let CA set with my chain about 5 minutes before I assemble the weapon, but I've seen Ted Li do it in about 90 seconds. If the fencer picks it up right after I finish it, I may suggest he let it sit for 45 minutes or so before he fences with it, but it usually sits longer waiting for the fencer to come pick it up.

Now if you ARE in a hurry, and you don't have any accellerant, then use tap water. It does look hazy when you do that, but it works. I will do that for a quick reglue between bouts. Again, best to just let it sit for an hour or so.

[yeoldearmourer]

Me and Ted Li are two of the fasts armourer when it come to rewireing a blade by shear numbers of baldes we have done We both used a CA glue

[PeterGustafsson]

Hi!

The real question is WHY are you using an accellerant?

My 1st try with accelerant looked better, and went 3 times faster, than my best effort without.

Also, I see that both Purple and TimL use accelerator - good company to be in.


Have a nice time!

Peter Gustafsson

[Purple Fencer]

The real question is WHY are you using an accellerant?

Because, as a single person operation, I can't let the blades sit and cure by themselves if I'm wiring blades for inventory.

After the first day of the Palm Desert Open a couple of weeks back, I was up until 1Am wiring blades in my hotel room (hey...now I feel like a REAL armorer!). if I'd had to let them sit, I'd've only had a few blades for the next day. Instead, the accelerant allowed me to get a dozen done (this was after getting home from dinner)

There's nothing wrong with using an accelerator in any situation...as long as the blade's properly prepped, why wait longer then you have to?

[CvilleFencer]

I used to us an acelerator called Zap Kicker that I got from a local hobby store. The problem is that it sprayed out a lot more gunck than I needed and I had the same discoloration problem as Purple. Now I use something very similiar to what he uses in a pump bottle. Try your local hobby store as a place that does model trains/airplanes should have it.

The Aerosol cans are good to keep in your toolkit for tourneys however. I one had a bottle of the pump stuff break in my fencing bag and leak all over my jacket/mask. Smelled worse than a saber fencer and I think I was a little stoned... Did not help my fencing at all, before someone asks. Gave me a headache that liked ta near crossed my eyes.

[Purple Fencer]

I used to us an acelerator called Zap Kicker that I got from a local hobby store. The problem is that it sprayed out a lot more gunck than I needed and I had the same discoloration problem as Purple. Now I use something very similiar to what he uses in a pump bottle. Try your local hobby store as a place that does model trains/airplanes should have it.

The Aerosol cans are good to keep in your toolkit for tourneys however. I one had a bottle of the pump stuff break in my fencing bag and leak all over my jacket/mask. Smelled worse than a saber fencer and I think I was a little stoned... Did not help my fencing at all, before someone asks. Gave me a headache that liked ta near crossed my eyes.

I think Zap Kicker was the first type I used.

The main problem with using an accelerant lies in how much glue you use in the first place. You don't need that much...in fact, too much glue creates a weaker bond than a small amount. (Dan DeChaine can rewire a blade with 3 drops of the really aqueous stuff)

If you have a lot of glue, you'll find out when you apply the accelerant...because you'll hear it sizzle and give off smoke as it cures...which you don't get if you don't overdo the glue.

And in epee you have to make sure you don't leave bumps of glue that might catch the point...'cause it won't ground and you'll get a point against you.

Nothing causes mroe arguments in the armoring community than gluing theory (well...maybe certification, but that's a whole different thing). The bottom line is...whatever works for you works...period.

[Frank Pratt]

I use fletch tite for wiring jobs, but I sometimes use CA and accelerant to tack the wire down near the tang before gluing, especially with the deep Leon Paul épée blades. I used gallons of Zap and Zap Kicker back in my R/C Model Airplane days and still use it nowadays. You can get CA for model airplanes at any R/C hobby store. They usually come in three different thicknesses. The thinnest is kinda like the generic super glue/Crazy Glue you buy at wal mart; it dries quickly. The others are thicker and take a bit longer to dry (giving you more time to work with the wire, if need be.) All three thicknesses are equally strong, and they will all dry instantly if you use an accelerant such as Zap Kicker.

If you don't have a hobby shop near you, you can order CA online at Tower Hobbies.

[rory]

Given a clean blade groove, I can get a blade wired in 10 minutes without using an accelerant.

Unless you're wiring large batches of blades (a la Purple, YeOldArmourer), why bother with accelerant?

1. Insert cup of wire into barrel
2. Press down with tip setter
3. Fit barrel to tip
4. Tighten
5. Run superglue down groove of blade
6. Bend blade using hands
7. Pull wire against groove, keeping blade bent
8. Wrap wire around tang
9. Jam bent blade under desk

Leave it to dry for 5 mins more, then fit guard, pad, socket, handle - test it's working, then insert spring, tip, grub screws.
Go fence.

[HDG]

It's been a long time since chemistry; how do accelerants work?

[parrythis]

Sometimes. It depends on how much of a hurry I am in when gluing the wire in. Note - I only use accelerator (a.k.a. "kicker") on epees - where it is fairly easy to remove. I don't think I would want to have to remove "kicked" CA from the slot in a foil then next time I have to replace the wire.

[CvilleFencer]

I don't think I would want to have to remove "kicked" CA from the slot in a foil then next time I have to replace the wire.

A properly sealed metal pipe filled with acetone is one of the most handy fencing tools I got next to my blade chain and screwdrivers! If you strip/repair a lot of weapons they are very handy to have.

[rory]

A dremel with one of the standard fibre board discs will strip any glue out of the groove in double-quick time. And it's easier to get hold of than decent-strength acetone.

[Purple Fencer]

A dremel with one of the standard fibre board discs will strip any glue out of the groove in double-quick time. And it's easier to get hold of than decent-strength acetone.

*waggles hand* A diamond wheel is better...barely cuts at all....the fibre board discs DO cut....you don't want to cut all the way through the blade.

[CvilleFencer]

Purple beat me to condeming the cutting wheel. If you file, grind or modify the blade past the tang technically the blade is not legal for use. You could argue that it would never get noticed and be fairly close to right, but I would hate to have cut on a blade and then that blade snap and injures someone. Even if they never new about it I would and would probably wonder if I was somehow at fault. Not worth it to me. Besides, acetone is less effort and I am all about doing things quickly and easily in the amount of blades I work on in a given week. At a tourney where have my cordless dremel, I will use the method Purple mentions.

[DHCJr]

If you file, grind or modify the blade past the tang technically the blade is not legal for use.

Where did you hear that, certainly NOT in the rule book. You might read M.1 a little more carefully. "All methods of treating a blade BETWEEN the guard and the tip (point), by gringing, filing or other methods, are forbidden. When you have ground down the blade and put the weapon together, the ground area is NOT between the guard and the point.

In fact, if what you say were true, our international team, especially our Epeeist would have to be buying a lot of blades when they got to the Worlds. The times I have gone with the team, approximately 1/3 of the blades were too long.

[Purple Fencer]

Purple beat me to condeming the cutting wheel. If you file, grind or modify the blade past the tang technically the blade is not legal for use.

Only if such grinding or filing affects the blade flexibility...grinding a wire out is fine....

You could argue that it would never get noticed and be fairly close to right, but I would hate to have cut on a blade and then that blade snap and injures someone. Even if they never new about it I would and would probably wonder if I was somehow at fault. Not worth it to me. Besides, acetone is less effort and I am all about doing things quickly and easily in the amount of blades I work on in a given week. At a tourney where have my cordless dremel, I will use the method Purple mentions.

Even with acetone, you need to grind the residue out prior to doing the wire job.

[CvilleFencer]

Where did you hear that, certainly NOT in the rule book. You might read M.1 a little more carefully. "All methods of treating a blade BETWEEN the guard and the tip (point), by gringing, filing or other methods, are forbidden. When you have ground down the blade and put the weapon together, the ground area is NOT between the guard and the point.

Either you are misunderstanding me, or I am misunderstanding you. If one uses a dremmel cutting wheel on a foil to grind out the wire, they will often grind away some of the metal on either side of the wire grove as well, or press to hard and deepen the groove. Over time more and more metal is worn away as this process is repeated. I actually rewired a blade for a fellow who had been using a dremmel cutting wheel to strip his blades for years. The groove was so deep it was very close to punching through the bottom of the blade in a couple of spots. Unless you know of a really cool way to wire a blade so that the wire is not in between the tang and the point of the weapon, grinding in that area is a no no under a strict interpretation of the rule.

Now I think that Purple has the spirit of it correct, but all I am saying is that you are not supposed to modify or alter the steel of the blade as you also said. So it sounds like you are diagreeing with me by agreeing with me very firmly and still saying I am wrong... Rather confusing! Grind and file the shoulder and tang of the blade, or even shorten it to meet regs, but once you start cutting on the blade groove you are thining out the blade (which may affect the flexability but more importantly can weeken the blade). Unless I am misunderstanding what you are saying...