Questions from a beginner

[Soul Invictus]

Hey! I'm a relatively new high school foilist with a few questions. Care to answer them? Please pardon my noob-i-ness

Ahh here we go:

1) Im a rather quick fencer, or so my coach tells me. However, after an explosive lunge, if my attack happens to be parry-riposted, i am unable to get back into enguard position before my opponent makes a touch. I have browsed through the forums and i saw someone suggest landing on the balls of my feet when i lunge. However, that doesnt seem possible with a very fast lunge using quick forward momentum. Maybe i should just disengage (which means i have to slow down my attack) or is there another solution for a straight thrust?

2) When I am on the strip, i sometimes fence quite instinctively so any slight movement on my opponent's part makes me sorta attempt to parry. My coach has told me that this is bad since it leaves me open to a disengage and a touch. Also, when my opponent is advancing quickly with circular motions, i have difficulty catching the blade. What do u guys suggest? Relax and wait for the final moment while still retreating? What part of my opponent's body should i focus upon to get a better grasp as to when he/she will finish?

3) Is there any use to fleche backwards (running backwards)? In NY highschool fencing, fleching forwards isnt allowed.

4) Also, a general question, whats the best way to take advantage of my speed as a foilist, besides the obvious fast lunging?

Thats all the questions i have at the moment. Ill try to keep them organized so its easier for u guys to answer.
Anyways, thanks for your time! Any thoughtful ideas is much appreciated

[fencerontheline]

Odds are, slowing down is a good idea. Good timing is much more important than speed.

Btw- where do you fence?

[Soul Invictus]

North Shore Fencers Club Im coming down to Brooklyn Fencing for the Metro Div Summer Nationals on April 29th. Odds are i probably wont do that well but its for the experience i say!

[fencerontheline]

Also, don't land on the ball of your foot when you lunge. It's a bad idea so far as mechanics go. You'll hurt yourself.

A lot of these questions are best answered by your coach. Different coaches teach differently, and as a result, opinions differ on many of the things you wrote about.

[Araznal]

FoTL and I were part of the New York PSAL (I went to Stuy, he went to Bronx Science), so yeah, I'm curious where you fence too. To answer each part:

1) I would say something, but I haven't seen you fence, so I'm not going to touch this question.

2) Had this problem. Caused by being too tense and too nervous. Relax and wait. Again, slow down.

3) The PSAL doesn't want the bad fencers running around like headless chickens, so they got rid of the fleche. Doing a fleche backwards is TECHNICALLY allowed, but in most cases foolish.

4) Acceleration is far more important than speed. If you go fast all the time, it's very easy for your opponent to time their parry better and catch you on riposte. Also, as FoTL pointed out, timing + acceleration beats any fast fencer.

[Soul Invictus]

I'm currently a junior in Townsend Harris. I chose not to go to Stuyvesant

[D+F+P=Hadouken!]

Originally Posted by Soul Invictus

1) Im a rather quick fencer, or so my coach tells me. However, after an explosive lunge, if my attack happens to be parry-riposted, i am unable to get back into enguard position before my opponent makes a touch.

1. Practice lunging and recovering quickly. Try to build a mental connection between your front quadricep and recovering, because the front quadricep is a prime mover in the recovery movement. You really need to be able to feel it.

2. Make sure you are not leaning over too much. You can afford to lean over more when you are faster and stronger, but for right now, keep your torso upright.

3. Don't lunge so far, at first. Work on doing small lunges and recovering quickly. You can gradually lengthen them out though, but over the period of a few months.

4. Do some one legged squats for both your front and back legs.
http://www.powerathletesmag.com/pages/pistols.htm

They're great for building strength, coordination (the mind-muscle connection), and balance, all of which are essential to the modern athlete.

[keropie]

1. If you make a full bore first intention attack (i.e., your fastest lunge with or without disengage, beat, whatever) against a fencer of approximately your same ability level or higher, you will either hit him/her with your attack, or you will be parried and likely hit on the riposte. Those are pretty much the only two options. If you're really all that fast, you should be able to make a more conservative attack work, and save some energy for second intention/partially forseen actions such as a disengage against a perceived parry or a counter riposte (or tactical remise/reprise on this timing). I will second (or third or whatever we're up to) about not landing on the ball of your front foot... best case scenario is probably ankle injury and loss of speed/control, worse case probably some acl/mcl related.

2. It's all going to be about training yourself to see/feel/perceive the difference in a feint/preparation vs. an attack. If you know it's a feint/preparation, use that (lots of ways, attack the feint (listen to the officials call to decide if it's a good or bad idea in the future), countertime, false parry inviting a finish then real parry, etc. etc.), if you know it's the attack, parry it. You can encourage your opponent to finish (false nothing, false counterattack, etc.). Mind you, these actions will probably require you to slow down (you've heard this already, huh? ), and certainly being able to slow down isn't going to hurt anything.

3. Going backwards we wouldn't call it a fleche any more, but a passe arriere, and it's used when you find yourself in a bad place and need to runaway. It loses control and balance, but gains speed, so it's a gamble. Can also be used as an imitation of error encouraging your opponent to speed up and chase you down, but you'd better have a plan to deal with that.

4. See above about slowing down and/or changing speeds. Even Randy Johnson has pitches that aren't fastballs. Ability to control distance and rapidly expand or collapse it will serve you well, as will fast hands. But the ability to attack quickly (not fast) when your opponent is unready for it is amazingly effective.

Good luck, and keep with it ^^

[Araznal]

Oh BOY, I'm scared now... it's a Townsend Harris kid... oh NO! What will he do to this poor poor Stuyvesant alumn? Will he use the pretentious attitude? Or maybe his superior awkwardness?! Oh boy, I sure am glad I'm at Brandeis... FAR FAR away from those scary Townsend Harris people. Thank the LORD for saving me from them...

[Soul Invictus]

Originally Posted by Araznal

Oh BOY, I'm scared now... it's a Townsend Harris kid... oh NO! What will he do to this poor poor Stuyvesant alumn? Will he use the pretentious attitude? Or maybe his superior awkwardness?! Oh boy, I sure am glad I'm at Brandeis... FAR FAR away from those scary Townsend Harris people. Thank the LORD for saving me from them...

Is this Stuyvesant's stereotypical outlook on THHS students? I can assure u we aren't as pretentious as those in Stuy

On a more serious note, thanks for the advices. I'm sure it'll work wonders. Still looking into them atm

[Inquartata]

Practice parrying from the lunge position, and use it to do second-intention actions.

Practice the recovery forward, rather than the backward recovery from the lunge. Or in addition, I should say.

For the backward recovery from the lunge, I've found it helpful to consciously "dig" the toes of your front foot ( rather that end of your shoe ) into the strip and push off it to go backward. That's AFTER the lunge is finished.

[Goldgar]

Originally Posted by Soul Invictus

1) Im a rather quick fencer, or so my coach tells me. However, after an explosive lunge, if my attack happens to be parry-riposted, i am unable to get back into enguard position before my opponent makes a touch. I have browsed through the forums and i saw someone suggest landing on the balls of my feet when i lunge. However, that doesnt seem possible with a very fast lunge using quick forward momentum.

I wouldn't recommend trying to land a lunge on the ball of your front foot. The odds are you'd hurt yourself, and it wouldn't help anyway. To recover balanced from a lunge, you're going to have to pick up the ball of your foot and push off your heel.

If you make a fast, fully committed lunge and your opponent makes a parry and a quick, immediate riposte at good distance, you won't have time to recover. To defend yourself against that, you need to stay in the lunge -- you're balanced, right? -- and parry-riposte from that position. Your hand moves a lot faster than your whole body does. This is something to practice.

And when your opponent has a quick parry-riposte that you can't get past, and that you have trouble stopping with your own parry and counter-riposte from lunge position, you can make your lunge just a little bit short, so it looks real and threatening, but leaves you just a bit farther away. That gives you more time to parry, because it will take your opponent's riposte just a little bit longer to get to you. Also, since your action was planned from the beginning against the opponent's parry-riposte, you're more likely to be balanced and ready for it.

This is not to say you should stop trying to hit directly with your lunge; not at all! But if you mix it up a bit, you'll keep your opponent guessing.

Originally Posted by Soul Invictus

Maybe i should just disengage (which means i have to slow down my attack) or is there another solution for a straight thrust?

There's no reason an attack has to slow down to make a disengage. You can make a feint-disengage attack just as fast as a direct one, if the combination is premeditated. You probably need to practice the move, though. That's different from an attack where you're watching as you feint, to see what parry you may draw, and then disengaging. That sort of "eyes open" attack does generally require you to slow down a little. It, too, takes practice. But you'd be surprised what you can do with good balance and a lot of practice. And your fast, direct attack is very effective in setting up a feint-disengage, because it gives the opponent only a very small time window to make a successful parry.

Originally Posted by Soul Invictus

2) When I am on the strip, i sometimes fence quite instinctively so any slight movement on my opponent's part makes me sorta attempt to parry. My coach has told me that this is bad since it leaves me open to a disengage and a touch. Also, when my opponent is advancing quickly with circular motions, i have difficulty catching the blade. What do u guys suggest? Relax and wait for the final moment while still retreating? What part of my opponent's body should i focus upon to get a better grasp as to when he/she will finish?

I agree with your coach; you need to get your own reflexes under control a bit more. A good step toward this is to maintain distance just a little farther away, so you're confident you can see your opponent's action starting without an immediate need to respond. You need a distance where your opponent can't just hit you if you blink. The distance may be just a few inches, or it may be a full step away. I haven't seen you fence, so I don't know. When you get the right distance, if you're quick on your feet, you can choose whether to accept the attack -- because you have a comfortable parry-riposte waiting for it - or whether to retreat out of distance, or make the opponent stretch out until they're hard put to defend themselves, or close in to attack their preparation. If you're too close, you're going to have to be very twitchy, because anything your opponent does might hit you. With a little more distance, you can be more calm.

Originally Posted by Soul Invictus

3) Is there any use to fleche backwards (running backwards)? In NY highschool fencing, fleching forwards isnt allowed.

You might run away if you really have to, but it doesn't really give you much chance to make a touch of your own. You want to avoid situations where you have to run full-tilt backwards, and try to maintain distance where you can float backward with your feet under you, ready to act. Most often your opponent can't close with you, in a controlled fashion, faster than you can retreat in a controlled fashion. Sure, there are exceptions to that, but it's a decent rule of thumb. If your opponent is closing faster than you can get away, usually either (a) you were too close to begin with, or (b) your opponent is charging at you out of control, which makes them susceptible to an attack in their preparation or an evasive counterattack maneuver like a duck, twist, or spin-out. Since your high school league doesn't allow fleches (or, presumably, any forward cross-steps, like the NJ league), probably your opponent isn't actually running at you, so you shouldn't usually have any need to run backward.

Originally Posted by Soul Invictus

4) Also, a general question, whats the best way to take advantage of my speed as a foilist, besides the obvious fast lunging?

That's pretty general, and I don't have a simple answer. In general, find out the distance at which your opponents can't "just hit you", but have to work to close the distance -- unless you choose to let them -- and stay at or just outside that distance, depending on how dangerous they are. If this is a distance at which you can hit them with a quick lunge or feint-disengage, fine. Against other opponents, where you can't manage that, don't think of your footwork in terms of closing to lunge distance, and then lunging. Your opponent will probably attack you before you get there. Instead, think of maneuvering to get to quick-advance-lunge (or balestra) distance. Your opponent steps forward at the wrong time, or is late responding to your soft advance, and ka-BAM! There's your advance-lunge. And note that, if you don't let your opponent get to you when they attack, they're more likely to push forward to close the distance before starting their attack, affording you opportunities to attack as they are trying to get closer.

Hope that helps.

[Chafunkta]

1) AH!!! Don’t ever land on the balls of your feet. That would mean you’re not straightening your front leg enough during the lunge. Work on recovering faster, and make sure you’re using that back arm. Also, you may be lunging too deep.
2) Change your instincts. Learn to wait. The way to make a riposte easy is to wait for the last second to parry, i.e. when you’re opponent is closest to you. For the opponent advancing while making circles, just move your blade the opposite direction of his circles. You’ll catch it then.
3) I can’t begin to imagine a backwards fleche. Just use a crossover or jump back; unfortunately these will all leave you off-balance and will make that riposte pretty tough.
4) It’s not so much speed as it is the changing of it. If you’re able to call on the speed at a moment’s notice, say after a couple slow advances, you’ll do much better than pure speed. Work on attacks that accelerate.