Why are we kicking so much @$$ in Korea?

[fencerontheline]

I've been reading around on the British forum, and they're all trying to understand why the good ol' USA is rockin house in Korea.

We're rocking out with our **** out, wheras other countries with a tremendous fencing history are sucking. What's your explanation?

Is it the many training oppurtunities that we have as Americans? The diet? Steroids? Is it the good 'ol Captain America fighting mentality? Is it Nancy Anderson's leadership?

On an important side note, congratulations to everyone who went and everyone who made it possible. Good things have been happening so far, and more good things to come.

[Jason]

In spite of talk of the need to increase USFA membership, there are more fencers in the US than most any other country in the world. That means a pretty large sized talent pool. Over the last few years, with the increase in the numbers of trained coaches and the development of training programs (as opposed to just some guy giving lessons and unorganized bouting), it makes sense that we should start to see more success. (Not to mention that, due to various economic changes, and the loss of coaches to the US, other countries are hurting a little more than they once were.)

For the last few years, the US has been a very large presence on the Cadet and Junior scene.

Now, can we make the jump to Seniors? Hopefully, but that is a mighty large jump.

[edew]

Just as a reference for those checking the kff2006wcjc.com website, the US has more than 10 medals. So far it's:

Gold:
CWS
CME
CWE
JWF
JWS

Silver:
CWS

Bronze:
CMS
CWS
JWS
JME

(The Korean website did not keep track of the bronzes correctly. How hard is it to automate the process to count gold, silver and bronze so that those numbers are accurate immediately?)

[noahz]

1) Korea is really far away, so the Eastern Bloc fencing countries couldn't send their best fencers - only inferior, wealthy fencers who could pay their own way attended.

2) The field just happens to be weaker this year (implied: Cadets and Juniors won't be able to continue their results when they enter the Seniors. Look for that same tired line in an Escrime editorial next month).

3) You Americans just don't understand strategy! [Euro Country] is just setting up for World Championships - letting the US fencer win so they can get the seed they want.

Oh wait...this is the World Championships...never mind.

4) [Euro Country] fencers felt sorry for the US, so they're letting them win just this once.

5) [Euro Country] fencers could have won if they wanted to, just didn't feel like it.

6) The referees screwed up...10 times

7) Bush is a dumb American Cowboy with his guns drawn.

Blah blah blah etc. whatever.

WOO! USA NUMBER ONE BABY!!!!

[RITFencing]

Originally Posted by Jason

Now, can we make the jump to Seniors? Hopefully, but that is a mighty large jump.

That's tricky. Other countries where fencers can train full time have a huge advantage in senior competition; when US fencers age out of junior stuff they just don't have the time to devote to training.

[D+F+P=Hadouken!]

I'd be satisfied to dominate cadet and junior fencing.

[Jason]

Originally Posted by RITFencing

That's tricky. Other countries where fencers can train full time have a huge advantage in senior competition; when US fencers age out of junior stuff they just don't have the time to devote to training.

Americans cry about this a lot, but, these days, a lot of the top seniors in the world aren't actually training "full time". Sure, some are, but only a few. Many don't train any more than the top US seniors (which is, in fact, a hell of a lot).

[Craig]

FotL - I've been thinking about this a lot too. We expect to do well in women's sabre but we are seeing good results across the board which is just awesome for US fencing, and is a far cry from when I started and you were thought to be a fencing god if you had been on a 2 week trip to Germany.

The efforts of the last 10 years by a lot of coaches, parents, and administrators are starting to pay dividends.

Craig

[Fechter1]

I think we're just seeing the results of the increase in youth fencers and programs over the past years. Include in that an influx of foreign coaches (a lot of the from the former Warsaw Pact nations), and you have a winning combination.

There are, of course a range of intangibles to consider, including time zone shifts... Consider for a moment the following theory:
Korea is 7 hours behind EST (17 hours ahead actually, but for th eargument, this works better), 4 hours behind PST. Thus, american fencers have the advantage of fencing 'later in the day', which better corresponds to their usual training times. On the other hand, European fencers have to compete when it is the middle of the night acording to their internal clocks.

How much does that actually influence the quality of a individual's fencing? I have no idea. Just throwing out a seemingly plausible theory on the matter.

Strength of the field... Given that the event is being held basically halfway around the world from Europe might have prevented some fencers from attending. No clue in this one.
We'll have to wait for next year's results to see if any of this was a fluke or not.

As for the step to seniors (excluding WS), this might take a little longer, but the results are already there.

Edit: Forgot something:

Congrats to all the winners and medalists. Especially my clubmate Graham.

[fencerontheline]

(12:40:33) Mike Dote: any clue why we're kicking so much ass?
(12:40:48) sergey isayenko: i think a combination of russian coaches and us money...
(12:40:49) sergey isayenko:

[epeemike81]

Originally Posted by edew

Just as a reference for those checking the kff2006wcjc.com website, the US has more than 10 medals. So far it's:

Gold:
CWS
CME
CWE
JWF
JWS

Silver:
CWS

Bronze:
CMS
CWS
JWS
JME

(The Korean website did not keep track of the bronzes correctly. How hard is it to automate the process to count gold, silver and bronze so that those numbers are accurate immediately?)

how would you automate that process, given that the data is NOT available in a single database?

-m

[D+F+P=Hadouken!]

Its because of the gangsta culture in the US. When you send US fencers to anywhere with bling, they come back with it.

[epeemike81]

Originally Posted by Fechter1

There are, of course a range of intangibles to consider, including time zone shifts... Consider for a moment the following theory:
Korea is 7 hours behind EST (17 hours ahead actually, but for th eargument, this works better), 4 hours behind PST. Thus, american fencers have the advantage of fencing 'later in the day', which better corresponds to their usual training times. On the other hand, European fencers have to compete when it is the middle of the night acording to their internal clocks.

Actually, Korea is 11 hours behind EST, not 7. Nice try, though.

-m

[KD5MDK]

Originally Posted by epeemike81

how would you automate that process, given that the data is NOT available in a single database?

-m

It's available on a set group of webpages whose URLs are known in advance, and so should be reasonably easily scrubbable with a perl scrip or something.

[Army Fencer]

There's something to be said of momentum, too. We were expected to do well in CWS, but not as well as we did. We weren't expected to win CME, either. Once you have a couple really good results from your country, it really motivates everyone else and they all do well.

[noodle]

Originally Posted by Craig

FotL - I've been thinking about this a lot too. We expect to do well in women's sabre but we are seeing good results across the board which is just awesome for US fencing, and is a far cry from when I started and you were thought to be a fencing god if you had been on a 2 week trip to Germany.

The efforts of the last 10 years by a lot of coaches, parents, and administrators are starting to pay dividends.

Craig

i think that sums it up pretty nicely. the sport has been growing, as well as the quality of coaching, in the states. we've finally reached a point where we have kids entering the sport with quality coaching behind them, and they grow into solid cadet and junior fencers.

next step, it would seem, is to have more support for the seniors so people don't have to quit fencing in favor of this "real life" business

[Mauler]

Originally Posted by edew

(The Korean website did not keep track of the bronzes correctly. How hard is it to automate the process to count gold, silver and bronze so that those numbers are accurate immediately?)

It becomes increasingly difficult when the Korean programmers and datay entry personnel are being pressured socially and economically to spend more and more time and efforts into their Massive Multiplayer Online Role Playing Games responsibilities. When your extended family, your colleagues, government and your spouse and kids are crying about why it is that you can't seem to be levelling up as fast as K++42mAsh3R from next prefecture, and that they are collectively ashamed of relation to you because your persistent failure to acquire the special artifact, "Comet's Fart (dex+10, str+10, lore+10)," the accuracy of bronze medal count on some Real Life sport no longer seems so important anymore......

[KD5MDK]

Haaaaaahahahaha!

[rcmatthews]

Because after Americans play a sport for a while, we become very good at it. It just takes a little while. Witness soccer, or football for you Euros. The American women were quite good, then the men stepped up to join them. They're still not the best but in another 10 years, watch out. Domination. Thus it will be with fencing.

[fatfencer]

Originally Posted by D+F+P=Hadouken!

I'd be satisfied to dominate cadet and junior fencing.

Thats because you are only 16yrs old...... DOH!!!


Yo Momma's so fat she doesn't take pictures...she takes posters!!! Bwahahahah