Boxing shoes

[Orestes]

After searching earlier posts in an attempt to find a decent fencing shoe, I noticed a few posts about boxing shoes. I'm intriqued by the concept, and was wondering if anyone has had any experience?

[Dev]

I fence in Adidas Lo-Pros. They were cheap (forty bucks online) and are some of the best shoes I've ever fenced in (granted, I've only also fenced in D'Art IIs and Adistars). Light, good sole reinforcement, rounded heel, comfortable and supple.

Here's a link.

I'm also trying out the Nike Lo-Pros, once I find a size that fits.

[telkanuru]

Jeeze, people. Just pick up some Stabils or some LP Hi-Tecs and be done with it

[Dev]

Thanks, but I'd rather pay half as much for a shoe that fits me better.

[Orestes]

Originally Posted by telkanuru

Jeeze, people. Just pick up some Stabils or some LP Hi-Tecs and be done with it

I know, dead horse. But shoes are important. Not a great argument, but there you go.

Stabils blow. I think the reason that some fencers get all worked up about them is because they actually have support - something lacking in most fencing shoes. But they're sooooo slow. I haven't tried the LPs and probably won't. I haven't heard enough positive reviews to run out and get them.

Boxing shoes seem like a pretty realistic alternative given the similarities involved in foot work. Maybe not exactly the same, but closer to fencing than raquetball. My concern is that boxing shoes don't have the padding/sole or traction you'd need on a hard piste due to the nature of a boxing ring.

Dev - the adidas looked like they were more cushioned than the Nikes, but I like the velcro on the high top of the nike, and I have to admit that the white is a little more in keeping with what I'm used to. Considering the silver trend with adistar, LP, and now AF shoes however, it seems like black or blue might not be too out of the norm. I'd be interested in hearing how they work out for you.

And so the obsession continues.

[JEC]

I have used ADIDAS boxing shoes for fencing. In general, you need to add gel inserts to increase the support. They are light shoes intended for the relatively soft surface of a boxing ring, and not for jumping over an aluminum strip. But with gel inserts, they hold relatively OK. If you are training on a soft gym surface, they might be great and cheap Hi-top fencing shoes.

[achilleus]

Originally Posted by Orestes

I know, dead horse. But shoes are important. Not a great argument, but there you go.

Stabils blow. I think the reason that some fencers get all worked up about them is because they actually have support - something lacking in most fencing shoes. But they're sooooo slow. I haven't tried the LPs and probably won't. I haven't heard enough positive reviews to run out and get them.

Boxing shoes seem like a pretty realistic alternative given the similarities involved in foot work. Maybe not exactly the same, but closer to fencing than raquetball. My concern is that boxing shoes don't have the padding/sole or traction you'd need on a hard piste due to the nature of a boxing ring.

Dev - the adidas looked like they were more cushioned than the Nikes, but I like the velcro on the high top of the nike, and I have to admit that the white is a little more in keeping with what I'm used to. Considering the silver trend with adistar, LP, and now AF shoes however, it seems like black or blue might not be too out of the norm. I'd be interested in hearing how they work out for you.

And so the obsession continues.

Fencers like the Stabil because they are great performance shoes. The are supportive, cushioned, durable, and less expensive than fencing shoes.

Speed, I've found, has more to do with how the shoe fits and the footwork of the fencer. For this reason, I don't find the Stabils slow...

[Orestes]

Originally Posted by achilleus

Fencers like the Stabil because they are great performance shoes. The are supportive, cushioned, durable, and less expensive than fencing shoes.

Speed, I've found, has more to do with how the shoe fits and the footwork of the fencer. For this reason, I don't find the Stabils slow...

I think the stabil is a pretty good shoe for raquetball, but I would disagree that it is a great performance shoe. At around 13.5 ounces, there's more weight than even raquetball players like to see. I've also heard from a few people (both in fencing and raquet sports) that there's a concern that the thickness of the sole, while great for cushioning, has the potential to cause an ankle injury. I think this is more likely the case when a handball/raquetball player is coming down from a jump or planting steps poorly, but it is a possibility for fencers, especially on hasty or scrambled retreats. Lack of material coming into contact with the floor at instep also means that, for the rear foot anyway, stress from lunging and advancing goes into the ball and heel more than one would find in a traditional fencing outsole with more material. Not only a great way to trash an insole (which is short lived in the stabil already), but also puts pressure on 5th med and longus and tetius tendons of the rear foot.

I agree with you that the stabil offers a much better "ride", especially for a fencer with well established footwork habits. However, for novice/intermediate fencers, weight and comparative lack of flex might make messy footwork a bigger problem than it already is. Dragging comes to mind.

I think that there are probably indoor soccer shoes that make more sense. The Viktoria, for example, looks to share a very similar design to several different brands of indoor shoe. I'd be interested in learning who Viktoria hired to make their shoe.

As I have no money, I'm sadly left to depend on anecdotal info, which is why threads like this will continue to pop up. Hopefully my Macarthur will come through, and I'll be able to finance my quest for a better shoe. And then I'll quit fencing for cycling and start -really- burning through money.

[achilleus]

Originally Posted by Orestes

I think the stabil is a pretty good shoe for raquetball, but I would disagree that it is a great performance shoe. At around 13.5 ounces, there's more weight than even raquetball players like to see. I've also heard from a few people (both in fencing and raquet sports) that there's a concern that the thickness of the sole, while great for cushioning, has the potential to cause an ankle injury. I think this is more likely the case when a handball/raquetball player is coming down from a jump or planting steps poorly, but it is a possibility for fencers, especially on hasty or scrambled retreats. Lack of material coming into contact with the floor at instep also means that, for the rear foot anyway, stress from lunging and advancing goes into the ball and heel more than one would find in a traditional fencing outsole with more material. Not only a great way to trash an insole (which is short lived in the stabil already), but also puts pressure on 5th med and longus and tetius tendons of the rear foot.
I agree with you that the stabil offers a much better "ride", especially for a fencer with well established footwork habits. However, for novice/intermediate fencers, weight and comparative lack of flex might make messy footwork a bigger problem than it already is. Dragging comes to mind.
I think that there are probably indoor soccer shoes that make more sense. The Viktoria, for example, looks to share a very similar design to several different brands of indoor shoe. I'd be interested in learning who Viktoria hired to make their shoe.
As I have no money, I'm sadly left to depend on anecdotal info, which is why threads like this will continue to pop up. Hopefully my Macarthur will come through, and I'll be able to finance my quest for a better shoe. And then I'll quit fencing for cycling and start -really- burning through money.

The Stabil is a great performance shoe all around. It's stiff, durable, and not too smushy which leads to a solid platform to make clean footwork. At first the thicker sole may feel clunky if you're used to paper thin fencing shoes, but within a week, that disappears. It's the most popular handball/racquetball shoe for a reason.

I can't argue about the ankle injuries with facts, only I can say that I used to injure my ankle quite a bit with previous shoes, but have never with the Stabil.

As for the instep, I don't see an issue. My fencing specific shoes, from eons ago, only wore out on the front heel, the balls of the feet, and area where I dragged. The instep has never gotten much wear on any of my fencing shoes.

I'm shocked you think the Stabils sole doesn't last... The Stabils have lasted me longer than any other shoes I've used for fencing. Certainly more supportive, more cushioning, more traction, and the wear spots due to drag have lasted a long time.

Lastly, and most importantly to me, is that I can fence without pain and discomfort. Previous shoes often left my joints and feet aching. Not so with the Stabils.

Personally, most indoor soccer shoes don't have the cushioning or support I prefer. For those who really prefer a lighter, lower shoe, I really recommend the Adidas Feather tennis shoes.

[Orestes]

Originally Posted by achilleus

The Stabil is a great performance shoe all around. It's stiff, durable, and not too smushy which leads to a solid platform to make clean footwork. At first the thicker sole may feel clunky if you're used to paper thin fencing shoes, but within a week, that disappears. It's the most popular handball/racquetball shoe for a reason.

I can't argue about the ankle injuries with facts, only I can say that I used to injure my ankle quite a bit with previous shoes, but have never with the Stabil.

As for the instep, I don't see an issue. My fencing specific shoes, from eons ago, only wore out on the front heel, the balls of the feet, and area where I dragged. The instep has never gotten much wear on any of my fencing shoes.

I'm shocked you think the Stabils sole doesn't last... The Stabils have lasted me longer than any other shoes I've used for fencing. Certainly more supportive, more cushioning, more traction, and the wear spots due to drag have lasted a long time.

I think you'll find the Stabil's popularity in raquetball has as much to do with price and availabilty as it does with being a performance shoe. This differs from indoor soccer, for example, due to number of styles, price-points, and, probably most important of all, available customers. Rather than get into semantics, I'll agree that its a good shoe, but far from great.

As for durability: yes, the sole is very durable. It should be, what with all the adidas brand polyurethane (adiprene I think?) that the shoe is built on, as well as the hard plastic bits on the heel and instep. The -insole- doesn't last, and it makes sense to change is to something thicker lest it get squahed, as it does tend to start moving around after a while.
Additionally, because a part of the sole isn't worn does not mean it isn't being used. My guess is that if you could peel apart the out-sole and take a look at the mid, you'd see some stress induced changes in the EVA or whatever material was used.

After watching some boxing tonight, I'm convinved that there are more parallels with what boxers are doing with their feet than what raquet players are doing. Once I get my hands on some boxing shoes, I'll mess around with orthotics until I find something that works.

If you've found that that Stabils satisfy what you're looking for from a shoe, than you're very fortunate. Personally, I'm still looking. In the meantime, I plan on practicing footwork in sandals to properly celebrate Easter.

[achilleus]

Originally Posted by Orestes

I think you'll find the Stabil's popularity in raquetball has as much to do with price and availabilty as it does with being a performance shoe. This differs from indoor soccer, for example, due to number of styles, price-points, and, probably most important of all, available customers. Rather than get into semantics, I'll agree that its a good shoe, but far from great.

In the US? The Stabil 5 (the 6's are easier to find, but hardly common) hard to find and at $85 much more expensive than readily available racquetball/court shoes made by Ektelon, Head, Wilson, Reebok, Asics, etc...

Originally Posted by Orestes

As for durability: yes, the sole is very durable. It should be, what with all the adidas brand polyurethane (adiprene I think?) that the shoe is built on, as well as the hard plastic bits on the heel and instep. The -insole- doesn't last, and it makes sense to change is to something thicker lest it get squahed, as it does tend to start moving around after a while.

Insole, missed that...

You're right, the paper thin insole is kinda useless. Then again, I switch out the insole on almost every shoe, so for me, it's a moot point.

Originally Posted by Orestes

Additionally, because a part of the sole isn't worn does not mean it isn't being used. My guess is that if you could peel apart the out-sole and take a look at the mid, you'd see some stress induced changes in the EVA or whatever material was used.

Agreed, however, the wear and tear there is so minimal for my footwork style that I don't have any issues with the Stabils instep.

Originally Posted by Orestes

After watching some boxing tonight, I'm convinved that there are more parallels with what boxers are doing with their feet than what raquet players are doing. Once I get my hands on some boxing shoes, I'll mess around with orthotics until I find something that works.

Boxing does share some similar traits, altough, the surfaces used differ greatly as do some of the more explosive and dynamic movements. Racquetball and squash match up much better in that regard. This is why, IMO, the older squash shoes look and perform remarkably like the older fencing shoes.

Originally Posted by Orestes

If you've found that that Stabils satisfy what you're looking for from a shoe, than you're very fortunate.

It took me a while of trying on lots of different styles...

Originally Posted by Orestes

Personally, I'm still looking. In the meantime, I plan on practicing footwork in sandals to properly celebrate Easter.

Ouch.

[carlos]

Does anyone have experience fencing in basketball shoes? I have a pair of Nikes (can't find a model name at all) that are "semi-high top," meaning they don't quite cover the ankle but are higher than regular low-tops. Like Air Jordans when they were first introduced.

They are light and have fairly flat soles so they make good contact but are not as low and slipperlike as fencing shoes or racing flats.

[D+F+P=Hadouken!]

Yeah, I've fenced in the Dunkmans (a basketball shoe). They worked fine for me, really quite pleasant.

[cscriv]

hey i was thibking about asking for some Everlast Lo-Top Boxing Shoes, instead of actual fencing shoes. this is because i wanted somthing cheeper.
what do u guys think?

[Foiled in Seattle]

Zappos.com has adiSTARs on sale for $68. Screamin' deal.

http://zeta.zappos.com/product/7313216/color/67449

[erooMynohtnA]

Originally Posted by cscriv

hey i was thibking about asking for some Everlast Lo-Top Boxing Shoes, instead of actual fencing shoes. this is because i wanted somthing cheeper.
what do u guys think?

Absolutely terrible idea

Originally Posted by Foiled in Seattle

Zappos.com has adiSTARs on sale for $68. Screamin' deal.

http://zeta.zappos.com/product/7313216/color/67449

Which ones are those? What sport are they for?

[Foiled in Seattle]

Originally Posted by erooMynohtnA

Which ones are those? What sport are they for?

Zappos doesn't specify a sport, but they're the Quick GCS model, and they appear to be cross-trainers.

[Dev]

Originally Posted by cscriv

hey i was thibking about asking for some Everlast Lo-Top Boxing Shoes, instead of actual fencing shoes. this is because i wanted somthing cheeper.
what do u guys think?

If you do, for God's sake at least put a heel cup in them. Boxing shoes are not made for coming down on your heel (such as during a lunge) all the time.

[cscriv]

so uhh...wuts the best suggestion? (prefreby under $65)

[MyrddinsPrecint]

Originally Posted by cscriv

so uhh...wuts the best suggestion? (prefreby under $65)

In order to find this very old thread you have to have found other threads. Read them.

What kinds of surfaces do you fence on? If you fence on wrestling mats, by all means, get wrestling shoes. If you fence on a Dance Floor, a Gymnastics floor, or any floor designed to have some give, you can, again, consider a shoe with less support. If you regularly fence on very hard surfaces, you will probably need to add support to ANY shoe you buy. For a shoe like a Stabil, it will be less important than for a boxing or indoor soccer shoe.

What condition are your feet in? Legs and leg joints? If you have foot/ankle/shin/knee/hip problems, you cannot cut costs in shoes. Some people will be served by a shoe with a lot of padding, others have been served better with a high end fencing shoe. Do some research, using the search function.

The easiest way to maximize shoe quality while spending the least amount of money is buying a shoe not targeted for fencing. Look at raquetball and tennis shoes. Even a new pair of cross-trainers are often much better than the past-their-prime sneakers you're probably wearing now.