Diamond (Delaware) State Games... dry foil only?!?

[fencerchica]

It's really nifty that several states, including Delaware, allow out-of-state residents to participate in their State Games events, and I'm tentatively planning to go to a couple of the Diamond Games' events this year. But why on earth does the Diamond State Games' fencing event consist only of NON-ELECTRIC foil? I think I'll fence it anyway, as a lark, but sheesh! I just had to share. Has anyone here ever been to it before, or know why they do it this way?

http://www.delawaresports.com/LinkCl...id=216&mid=612

[oiuyt]

Equipment required is a might cheaper.

Originally Posted by Participant Manual

Rules: This competition will be ‘dry’ (non-electric) foil. Competitors will have their own mask, foil, glove, jacket and under arm protector. For those not having underarm protectors a loaner supply will be available. Participants must wear long pants. Shorts will not
be allowed. Rules as established in the USFA manual will be adhered to as appropriate. Rental equipment will not be available. Participants will be required to act as judges when not engaged in a bout.

Competition registration begins at 8 am. Competition will beign
promptly at 9 am.

Yeah, that sounds like an event I'd rather do than the PdT... :eyeroll:

Technically knickers are barred from this competition, unless they define them as fitting into the category "long pants" (which I suspect they will, for this purpose).

"Rules ... will be adhered to as appropriate." Heh. 'Nuf said on that bit.

-B

[MyrddinsPrecint]

Originally Posted by oiuyt

Yeah, that sounds like an event I'd rather do than the PdT... :eyeroll:

Golley Gee, me too!

we can do it together, and whenever I'm asked to "act as a judge" i'll cheat for you!!


hehehe

[KD5MDK]

MP. you're too young for that. You need to have been fencing before 1988 to do that properly.

[fencerchica]

Actually, I went up to Boston and did PdT last summer, but am staying close to home on that weekend, this year, for other reasons. I can squeeze in a quick run up to Delaware on the morning of 6/24, though, and this event sounds like it's going to be so peculiar I might get a kick out of the sheer goofy novelty of it.

[oiuyt]

Originally Posted by fencerchica

Actually, I went up to Boston and did PdT last summer, but am staying close to home on that weekend, this year, for other reasons. I can squeeze in a quick run up to Delaware on the morning of 6/24, though, and this event sounds like it's going to be so peculiar I might get a kick out of the sheer goofy novelty of it. :)

And to be fair, if I had nothing else going on that weekend I might do it for a lark. $20 entry fee makes it a bit expense for that, but they give you a t-shirt and presumably a medal (assuming one does well, naturally) for that.

Fenced a dry open foil event (with jury, etc.) in Scranton, PA last spring. Worth doing once. Might decide to do it again some day.

-B

[MyrddinsPrecint]

Originally Posted by KD5MDK

MP. you're too young for that. You need to have been fencing before 1988 to do that properly.

i was born before 1988. does that count?



......... i could learn.....

[fencerX]

Originally Posted by fencerchica

But why on earth does the Diamond State Games' fencing event consist only of NON-ELECTRIC foil? I think I'll fence it anyway, as a lark, but sheesh! I just had to share. Has anyone here ever been to it before, or know why they do it this way?

More importantly, will they be using the old or the new non-electric foil timings???

[KD5MDK]

You mean, do the judges get 20 or 45 seconds to throw the bout each touch?

[Wafath]

A brief google search on google turned up this page:

http://www.freewebs.com/archmerefencing/publicity.htm

If you look at "Tournament Info.", some interesting tidbits from an earlier competition run by the same guy:

Underarm protectors are highly recommended but not required.

Flicking actions will not be recognized as legitimate hits/attacks.

I wonder if the second statement is there as a crude attempt to implement "new timings" in dry, or if it is a pedantic disagreement with modern foil.

In short, I wonder if Paul Fleming is an experienced (or formerly experienced) modern fencer who is doing the best he can with limited resources, or if he is, to be un-kind, a classical fencer in disguise.

W

[seak]

shrug, it could also be be that it is really harrd to tell if a flick landed point when fencing dry foil

[Mauler]

Conventions of dry foil, as practiced by dry rules and protocols of the day, required that the tip essentially remain on target with the blade bent slightly to indicate a valid touch. Anything less wouldn't be visible to the members of the jury, or even be ignored.

Makes sense that if they are conducting a dry foil tournament using dry foil rules and keep the door open for those who are only used to modern variety, then they oughta provide some heads-up on potential points-of-interest that distinguish this totally different and non-interchangeable sport.

[Schiavona]

Better brush up on your theatrical skills. As I remember, dry foil was half skill and half mime.

[Mauler]

Dry fencing was definitely a performance art, yes.

[counter riposte]

Underarm protectors are highly recommended but not required.

Re read: Death is optional... but not required.

Between the lines: No insurance coverage. Any injuries incurred while fencing are due to your own stupidity.

[fencerchica]

Kind of sketchy for club practices! Cotton non-FIE underarm protectors are like $20, too! Is it that hard to mandate them?? Well, but least for the Diamond State Games event, it does state:

Competitors will have their own mask, foil, glove, jacket and under arm protector. For those not having underarm protectors a loaner supply will be available.

I just hope I won't get hassled if I show up with a pistol grip.

Originally Posted by counter riposte

Re read: Death is optional... but not required.

Between the lines: No insurance coverage. Any injuries incurred while fencing are due to your own stupidity.

[Mauler]

Originally Posted by fencerchica

I just hope I won't get hassled if I show up with a pistol grip.

You know... While they must have gotten past convincing the powers-that-be that fencing "swords" are sporting equipment, and NOT "weapons," you may want to tone down on referring to the individual parts by any trigger-words. They just might require you to surrender the grips.

Not that long ago, at a state games in my neck of woods, fencers and shooters arriving at the main hosting campus were segregated from the mainstream populace by being escorted into a separate shuttle and being brought to a separate housing dorm by ourselves.

The shooters had to give up their rifles/pistols as well as ammo, which they didn't get to see until the actual day of their events. So many of them got to sit around 1, 2, or even 3 days with no practice, instead spending the idle days hanging out at various points of the athlete village and visiting other sports' venues.

The word is that fencers came VERY CLOSE to being required to surrender their gear as well under similar conditions.

This year, we're sharing a campus with wrestlers and boxers. So fencers oughta have a fun time comparing shoes, and notes on footwork, respectively?

[edew]

I've noticed in movies, the boxing coach always tell the fighter to have his feet close together (so close as to tie a string between the two feet). In fencing, however, it's recommended to keep the legs further apart than expected. (I tell my fencers, "feet wider apart" constantly.)

Maybe there is more power with the feet closer together (although I don't seem to see that), while power is not an issue in fencing. Agility certainly helps by having the feet further apart, but I can see the benefits of agility in boxing as well: they can't hurt you if they can't hit you.

[oldguy]

I noticed some pre-registrations on askfred, so I thought I should help clear up any possible misunderstandings:
-The Diamond State Games is a charity event for the benefit of the Leukemia Society of Delaware. (Hence the $20 entry fee).
-This is the first time that fencing has been an event at the games.
-Paul Fleming teaches fencing at the Western YMCA in Newark, DE. He teaches dry fencing. There is no electric equipment available. His students compete only very locally in dry events, and occaisionally in novice (dry) events at Fencing Academy of Philadelphia. When he does get a student interested in competitive fencing, he directs them to FAP.
-At the Diamond State Games you can expect a very basic event. The strips may or may not have en guard lines or 2 meter lines marked. Expect a round of pools, and ILO DEs, a final round robin pool of 6 (give or take).
-Most of the fencers will not own knickers, hence the caveat about shorts. There will be a lot of sweat pants and probably some jeans. Paul has a lot of old equipment from the now defunct Wilmington Fencing Club. His students are used to borrowing equipment untill they can purchase their own.
-Up untill this year, Delaware has been among the red-headed stepchildren of fencing. Outside of any Division, Delaware was part of "The National Division". This was mercifully corrected this year as Northern Delaware at least, is now officially part of the Philadelphia Division. I am sure (I hope) that once Paul recognizes the assets available to him, and the rest of Northern Delaware, events like the Diamond State Games will be electric in more ways than one.
-I have two sons, both of whom got a great start in fencing from the Paul at the YMCA. My older son now fences at FAP and my younger son will be starting there in June. I mention this just so you know that even though Paul is in fact a "classical" fencer, and teaches ""classical" fencing, when he sees a kid that should or could be a competitive fencer, he directs them to Mark Masters at the FAP. In other words, he is not a bad guy.

So if you are not going to PdT, go to the Diamond State Games, and maybe be a part of making it something bigger and better next year.
-

[fencerchica]

Thank you for contributing all the information above! :-)