04-10-2006, 07:30 PM
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#1 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Columbus, OH
Posts: 568
| The logical fallacies thread
Please get them off your chest here, instead of anywhere else. Inquartata, this is for you since you love to point them out so much. Straw men, ad hominem, tautologies, it's all fair game!
"Oh yeah, well there are MILLIONS of Christians in the world, are they ALL wrong?" or how about "This Mexican down the street from me has a messy yard. Mexicans need to go back where they came from."
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04-10-2006, 10:08 PM
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#2 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Paris, France
Posts: 1,099
| You're confusing a part with the whole, but I don't know the proper term.
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04-11-2006, 01:20 AM
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#3 | | The Judge
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,200
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by rcmatthews You're confusing a part with the whole, but I don't know the proper term. | argumentum ad populum | |
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04-11-2006, 04:15 AM
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#4 | | Senior Member
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| Quote: |
Originally Posted by noodle argumentum ad populum | You're probably not right because you're only a D03 in foil.
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C'est pas la chute, c'est l'atterrissage.
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04-11-2006, 12:02 PM
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#5 | | Senior Member
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Just because you have the right, that doesn't mean it is right.
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04-12-2006, 12:01 AM
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#6 | | Curmudgeon-in-Chief
Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Somewhere in your nightmares!
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| Quote: |
Originally Posted by TrainingDummy Please get them off your chest here, instead of anywhere else. |
Er....no?
You are essentially asking us not to raise certain valid objections to people's pet theories because you don't like them. Nothing motivates us to accede to your personal preferences in this regard, however. Sorry, man. | |
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04-12-2006, 12:01 AM
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#7 | | Curmudgeon-in-Chief
Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Somewhere in your nightmares!
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Originally Posted by rcmatthews You're confusing a part with the whole, but I don't know the proper term. | Fallacy of composition. | |
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04-12-2006, 12:03 AM
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#8 | | Curmudgeon-in-Chief
Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Somewhere in your nightmares!
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Originally Posted by noodle argumentum ad populum | Well, that WOULD be an epeeist's favorite! 
But no, populam is the fallacy of believing that the more popular or widespread a belief the more likely it is to be true. | |
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04-12-2006, 12:14 AM
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#9 | | Senior Member
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Originally Posted by Inquartata But no, populam is the fallacy of believing that the more popular or widespread a belief the more likely it is to be true. | Noodle was just jumping on the bandwagon. It is the #1 choice of discerning fallacists, after all!
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04-12-2006, 10:18 AM
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#10 | | Super Shoebie
Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: VA
Posts: 1,081
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Originally Posted by Inquartata Er....no?
You are essentially asking us not to raise certain valid objections to people's pet theories because you don't like them. Nothing motivates us to accede to your personal preferences in this regard, however. Sorry, man. | No, no, Mr. Inq., the point is to post our fallacies here rather than elsewhere... but once we start posting fallacies then we'll start posting half-truths, then we'll all just start lying about everything until no one can believe anything that's on F-net and pretty soon that leads to beer drinking!
(I feel an old geometry headache coming on). | |
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04-12-2006, 10:23 AM
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#11 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Under the sea
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| Can't we just skip all the crap and go to the drinking part?
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04-12-2006, 10:36 AM
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#12 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 1999 Location: Grand Rapids, MI, USA
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Originally Posted by D'Art Can't we just skip all the crap and go to the drinking part? | What--you're not already there? Dude! Catch up!
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04-12-2006, 10:40 AM
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#13 | | Senior Member
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| It is the middle of the afternoon over here, and I have training later on. I probably will be playing catch-up afterwards, though. 
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04-12-2006, 03:53 PM
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#14 | | The Judge
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,200
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Originally Posted by Inquartata Well, that WOULD be an epeeist's favorite!
But no, populam is the fallacy of believing that the more popular or widespread a belief the more likely it is to be true. | "Oh yeah, well there are MILLIONS of Christians in the world, are they ALL wrong?"
An argumentum ad populum (Latin: "appeal to the people"), in logic, is a fallacious argument that concludes a proposition to be true because many or all people believe it; it alleges that "If many believe so, it is so." In ethics this argument is stated, "if many find it acceptable, it is acceptable."
"This Mexican down the street from me has a messy yard. Mexicans need to go back where they came from."
A straw man argument is one that misrepresents a position in order to make it appear weaker than it actually is, refutes this misrepresentation of the position, and then concludes that the real position has been refuted. This, of course, is a fallacy, because the position that has been claimed to be refuted is different to that which has actually been refuted; the real target of the argument is untouched by it. | |
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04-12-2006, 04:26 PM
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#15 | | Senior Member
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Originally Posted by Inquartata But no, populam is the fallacy of believing that the more popular or widespread a belief the more likely it is to be true. | In this case, the fallacy is that your assertion is false. We call this "the fallacy of being wrong". *grin*
"The more popular a belief the more likely it is to be true" is a true statement. This is an appeal to statistics which takes as base that the more often something is observed to be true 'the more likely it is to be true'. The key is in the imprecise language of "more likely" rather then the assertion "is true".
Further, the standard distinction between argumentum ad numerum and argumentum ad populum is that populum appeals to the general area (ie// it is true because the people engaging in the discourse assert it is true) while ad numerum appeals to the statistics of a broader population (lots of people believe in God, therefor, God must exist).
Regardless of the semantical difference, the fallacy argumentum ad numerum is that because a belief is widely held to be true it is therefor absolutely true.
James.
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04-12-2006, 05:49 PM
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#16 | | Senior Member
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Originally Posted by jBirch
"The more popular a belief the more likely it is to be true" is a true statement.
| Ummmm, no. Every person on the earth could believe something, but that does not increase the probability that it is true. It is virtually impossible to have a statement that is absolutely true. One might even say that the more popular a belief is, the more likely it is to be fallacious.
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Ich steige ab, Hab keine Zeit, Muss jetzt zu den anderen Pferden, Wollen auch geritten werden
C'est pas la chute, c'est l'atterrissage.
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04-12-2006, 06:15 PM
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#17 | | Senior Member
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Originally Posted by rcmatthews Ummmm, no. Every person on the earth could believe something, but that does not increase the probability that it is true. It is virtually impossible to have a statement that is absolutely true. One might even say that the more popular a belief is, the more likely it is to be fallacious. | How do you figure? This has nothing to do with absolute truth and everything thing to do with probable truth. How is something believed by a very small group of generic people more probably true then something believed by a very large group of generic people? Remember, belief is the acceptence of information as fact.
James.
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If it's stupid, but it works, it's not stupid.
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04-12-2006, 07:10 PM
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#18 | | The Judge
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,200
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Originally Posted by jBirch How do you figure? This has nothing to do with absolute truth and everything thing to do with probable truth. How is something believed by a very small group of generic people more probably true then something believed by a very large group of generic people? Remember, belief is the acceptence of information as fact.
James. | fallacy of biased sample | |
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04-12-2006, 07:24 PM
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#19 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Carstairs, AB, Canada
Posts: 3,359
| And with that, I shall run away...
James.
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If it's stupid, but it works, it's not stupid.
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04-12-2006, 08:53 PM
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#20 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Paris, France
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Originally Posted by jBirch How do you figure? This has nothing to do with absolute truth and everything thing to do with probable truth. How is something believed by a very small group of generic people more probably true then something believed by a very large group of generic people? Remember, belief is the acceptence of information as fact.
James. | Because most people are stupid. Therefore, if most people belive something, it doesn't increase the probability that it is a truth.
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Ich steige ab, Hab keine Zeit, Muss jetzt zu den anderen Pferden, Wollen auch geritten werden
C'est pas la chute, c'est l'atterrissage.
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