Cadet World Championships finals @ fencingchannel.tv

[KD5MDK]

I want to sit down with half a dozen referees (T, O, P, S, D and me, say, at Sectionals) and watch that bout and see what the proper result should have been.

[whtouche]

Was I seeing things in noticing that the referee raises his right hand with every halt to indicate the halt?

I've been under the impression that the only time a hand signal is used for halt is when something other than a touch or light stops the action. Am I incorrect?

[KD5MDK]

Yes, you're incorrect. Not that it is widely used.

[D+F+P=Hadouken!]

Hmmm. Ok. I learned it differently from bukantz, but whatever.

[Peach]

Well crowd reaction is one thing. I'm more curious about the thoughts of another referee...

Crowd reaction is one thing, the thoughts of another referee are another, but I wouldn't want to call that bout unless I were standing where he was, had full-screen, and could do slow-motion replay. I just watched it again and while I can't see as he did in three cases, I can see how he would have called them that way.

[fencingpictures]

Ok we have the women's epee up and we have a link in the main page.
Enjoy,
fp

[bigdawg2121]

To the photographer - thanks for letting us play along at home easier this time! And we LOVE the high resolution/large size format! Next time though, can you pan up a couple of more times to let us see the score? Great job overall!

Umm Dave, the score is kind of displayed on the scoring unit at the base of the strip, look down. Green numbers. Panning up would probably hinder viewing the score a bit

[eac]

Umm Dave, the score is kind of displayed on the scoring unit at the base of the strip, look down. Green numbers. Panning up would probably hinder viewing the score a bit

Those numbers are extremely hard to see, at least in the CME bout. Very easy to miss.

[KD5MDK]

Umm Dave, the score is kind of displayed on the scoring unit at the base of the strip, look down. Green numbers. Panning up would probably hinder viewing the score a bit

Indeed, but the score is better displayed in larger numbers on a screen above the fencer's heads, usually out of view. I realize Fencingchannel is not in control of the filming, but a consistant, wide shot would be the best to show everything we want, I believe.

In addition, I was entertained to notice they were keeping time in the sabre bout.

Could somebody put a brief label on the fencers so we know who is who? I was able to distinguish Ward from Vloka by the fact that Becca wears a Leon Paul lame, and only one of the fencers in the clip had one (that and Capt. Slo-Mo's description of how the bout started out one sided). I had to guess based on scoring rates which fencer was Wicas.

[KShan5[PrFC]]

Wow...reffing in Cadet WS, I've never heard a crowd boo that much, although they were right too.

[KD5MDK]

I'd be curious to see what bouts that referee was assigned to for the rest of the tournament. Perhaps a crossover judge.

[fencingpictures]

Emily Cross wins Jr Women's Foil!!
She dominated in the final. Video to follow...

Men's Cadet Foil was just published on fencingchannel.tv:
http://www.fencingchannel.tv/feature/2006fie/CKOR.htm

And we updated the front page so it's easier to get to the videos!

[oso97]

Crowd reaction is one thing, the thoughts of another referee are another, but I wouldn't want to call that bout unless I were standing where he was, had full-screen, and could do slow-motion replay. I just watched it again and while I can't see as he did in three cases, I can see how he would have called them that way.

I spent about an hour in total yesterday taking that bout apart (yes, I'm a geek). Note that I did it for a couple of reasons - both to see some tactial actions that I'm working on with one of my students and then as a referee trying to play along at home.

On the first, I have to say that, techinically, they both fenced very VERY well. One thing I love about WS as opposed to MS is the way the fencers use the whole strip and will incorporate parries, counter-time actions and multiple tempo attacks on a regular basis. As opposed to the 'jousting' maneuvers in the Cadet MS finals where they just run at each other repeatedly. One thing I noticed was how Vloka was using all sorts of varied footwork to try and draw Ward off distance. Lots of stutter steps, stealing distance with the back foot, the occational flunge, false attacks, off tempo fients - really very very enjoyable to watch from that perspective

Then again watching it as a referee, I have to agree with Peach - that would have been a very difficult bout to referee. I do have to say that while I might have called a few actions differently, I can see where he was coming from. He set a VERY tight time and stuck to it through the entire bout. I'm really surprised that neither of the competitors made any obvious changes to exploit it (because I've seen them change before in mid-bout), but, it can be very hard to realize that sort of thing in the middle of a bout - this is one case where strip-side coaching can be very useful.

[4qtrs]

Wow! I just watched the Cdt Mens Epee and loved it. It was tremendous fun to watch the final.

Thank you!!

[Mauler]

Cadet WS.....

I was particularly perplexed and subsequently displeased at the following:

1) The referee's hand signals had this "floating feel" to it. "Swinging" from one side to the other, and way too fast. Even an attempt at pause would have considerably added to authority in motion. It would've brought tears to Arthur Cramer....

2) At the conclusion of the bout, it took him 23 somewhat seconds (averaged from 3 sampling) from smacking of the strip to displaying of the penalty card, most of which was dedicated to fumbling for the card! Referees, please practice drawing your cards! Straighten posture, breathe out (decreases surface drag between lining and card), pull!



The calls, however, despite the disapproval of both fencers and the experienced/educated audience, seemed consistent with last several years' development in Sabre... particularly in the topic of how forgiving (or unforgiving rather) the referee should be about "preparation" (perceived and real).... especially noticeable when comparing WS and MS.

[KD5MDK]

My blazer pockets are unfortunately fully of stuff when refereeing. However, I hope that when given a Final bout at a World Championships, that I would clean them out and retain only my cards.

[Mauler]

My blazer pockets are unfortunately fully of stuff when refereeing. However, I hope that when given a Final bout at a World Championships, that I would clean them out and retain only my cards.

As a working referee, realistically my pockets are full as well. I do, however, pay a great attention at streamlining the efficiency and utility of the arrangements of the contents, and it's a never-ending process to discover the perfect arrangement.

Relevant to this topic in particular, aside from keeping individual cards at separate, assigned, pockets (based on my hand dominance and relative frequency of use), I also re-align the cards vertically and medio-ventro-proximally within the pockets often throughout the day. That way, my card drawing remains relatively consistent in execution, manner, time and effect.

Next time my jackets are due for another visit to the tailor, I'm going to request extra-slippery linings on the side pockets! Along with extra-strong lining on my pencil-pocket!

[fatfencer]

Actually, forget the closeup shots. Give us the wide angle! I want to be able to see the whole action on both sides - particularly in sabre. And I love that the ref is for once included in the frame - it really helps when trying to 'play along at home.'

You need a WIIIIDE angle for Women's saber.... our nat'l team have some large behinds....but then again so do I! Bwahahahahaha

[KD5MDK]

Mauler: My biggest challenge is the yellow card and "spare note cards for pool scoring" go in one pocket, and the red card and my cell phone go in the other. My blazer lacks many referee refinements, which I shall have to rectify.

[Mauler]

My two biggest concerns in arrangement of contents are as follows:

- Drawing of Yellow Card, and to a lesser degree (only because of frequency), that of Red Card
- Stealthy application of assigning priority at the end of time limit with tied score

Both require a seamless execution without departing from the flow of the bout. I don't want to get caught fumbling through my pocket looking for the card or, worse, the coin. Doing so would would be a diturbance of the bout in progress, and I will, of course, have to give myself a Yellow Card for that. I don't want to have to exclude myself from the venue for repeated offense, as that means I will not be able to offer my service as long as I would like to... and put additional burden to my fellow referees.

The price for this arrangement is that the rest of the stuff goes into my poor left pocket (timer, personal shims and blade block, Red Card, hair tie/pin, stiff blank paper, extra battery for timer). I'm also considering having my tailor introduce a lateral expansion to the left pocket. At this point, utility must override the tradition of fashion......

Black Card, cell phone, and extra battery for cell phone go into my right, inner pocket. This, however, might be up for revision as I have recently (just this past weekend!) started field-testing the use of PalmFencer into my protocol....