Fencing.Net - Your Guide to Fencing & Fencing Equipment

lindajdunn · 04-10-2006, 09:35 AM

I failed the writen exam after attending a seminar so I'm going through the questions one-by-one to confirm that I thorougly understand each and every question in preparation for taking the exam again. Every rare once in a while, I cannot find the answer in the rules. I'm probably simply reading past it so here goes.

Does anyone know the answer to #4?

The distance required at the ends of a fencing strip in order to provide a safe and level surface upon which a fencer may retrest when crossing the rear limit is:
a. none
b. 1.5 to 2 meters
c. 1 meter

Thanks in advance.

kalivor · 04-10-2006, 09:43 AM

m.57.4:

Because the amount of wire which the spools can carry is limited, the conductive piste is designed for use on a piste 14 m long; an extension of 1.50–2 m is added at each end of the piste to allow the fencer crossing the rear limits of the piste to retire on an even and unvarying surface. The conductive piste must therefore have a length of 17–18 m.

lindajdunn · 04-10-2006, 09:59 AM

Thank you. I searched for this one for over an hour and now I feel very foolish over missing it.

oiuyt · 04-10-2006, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smurfette

Have you not ever heard of the "2-meter line"? You might want to ask friends verbally and THEN post on f.net the ones that you really can't find the answer to. You might feel less foolish that way.

The 2-meter line refers to the line at the front of the warning zone and has no bearing on the amount of level run-off space required beyond the end line.

Normally Figure 2 (and Figure 1) is cited as the source of the answer to this question. Clearly Kalivor has presented a considerably better source (for the same answer).

-B

oso97 · 04-10-2006, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Poulet

You might want to activate your brain and THEN post on f.net the criticisms to things you consider really dumb. You should be feeling pretty foolish right about now.

Boy, talk about a major case of pots and kettles...

smurfette · 04-10-2006, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oso97

Boy, talk about a major case of pots and kettles...

Umm, maybe I should drink coffee first ... Or read the question. Delete. Never happened. But it did ...

lindajdunn · 04-10-2006, 01:59 PM

Alas, I do not have access to fencing friends who would have known the answer to this question.

Next time, I'll ask the coach.

My apologies for wasting bandwidth.

chiz · 04-10-2006, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lindajdunn

Alas, I do not have access to fencing friends who would have known the answer to this question.

Next time, I'll ask the coach.

My apologies for wasting bandwidth.

Fencing.net, what better place to go for answers from friends? Bandwidth is cheep, real cheep.

chiz

yeoldearmourer · 04-10-2006, 02:32 PM

There is no dumb question the only dumb one is the one not ask. Even in my family time to time question are raise on the rules as well.

hpfencing · 04-10-2006, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiz

Fencing.net, what better place to go for answers from friends? Bandwidth is cheep, real cheep.

chiz

I agree! I am always asking things I don't know here and aside from the few jerks on here, everyone is alway very helpful!

KD5MDK · 04-10-2006, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lindajdunn

Alas, I do not have access to fencing friends who would have known the answer to this question.

Next time, I'll ask the coach.

My apologies for wasting bandwidth.

Questions asked, even silly ones, go into the archives here, and so when someone else doesn't know the answer, they are more likely to find it in a search.

Also, thank god we've gone past the silliness of having two different warning lines.

Poulet · 04-10-2006, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hpfencing

I agree! I am always aksing things I don't know here and aside from the few jerks on here, everyone is alway very helpful!

Even the few jerks are very helpful sometimes.

notalent · 04-10-2006, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KD5MDK

Also, thank god we've gone past the silliness of having two different warning lines.

Greetings KD5,
Thank god we have gotten past the silliness of warning fencers when they go off the backend of the strip. Made for a trackmeet in sabre.

Purple Fencer · 04-10-2006, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by notalent

Greetings KD5,
Thank god we have gotten past the silliness of warning fencers when they go off the backend of the strip. Made for a trackmeet in sabre.

No kidding...I remember they were running video of sabre at the 84 games at the LBI a few years back.

After watching the same action again and again (fence...one guy chases the other...halt...2 meter warning...THEN they actually start fencing), I felt they should've just flipped a coin between each point, and then they'd have ot start at the loser's 2 meter line....they all started there anyway.

Mauler · 04-10-2006, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by notalent

Greetings KD5,
Thank god we have gotten past the silliness of warning fencers when they go off the backend of the strip. Made for a trackmeet in sabre.

Or flipping coins on instances of simultaneous touches in Sabre.

edew · 04-11-2006, 02:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Purple Fencer

No kidding...I remember they were running video of sabre at the 84 games at the LBI a few years back.

After watching the same action again and again (fence...one guy chases the other...halt...2 meter warning...THEN they actually start fencing), I felt they should've just flipped a coin between each point, and then they'd have ot start at the loser's 2 meter line....they all started there anyway.

No, it didn't exactly happen that way. What happened was the french guy gently chased the italian guy until the italian guy ran past the 2-meter line. The president called "halt, deux-metres". The two fencers line up properly, then the italian guy chased the french guy down the strip until the french guy ran past the two-meter line. The president called "halt, deux-metres". The two fencers line up, and then the french guy chased the italian guy down the strip.

After about 30 of this (first bout of the gold medal team match between France and Italy in MS), announcer Peter Burchard started making snarky sounds as he called out what the referee was calling. After about 50 of these (and really, it was hard to determine whether it was 50 or 50,000, since it could have been looped), the FIE officials came out and started to decide how to make things change. They gave warnings or something of the sort to make things happen. And then things happened: preparation, attack into prep, parry riposte. All lightning fast. Don't know how anyone could call it without lights, now.

KD5MDK · 04-11-2006, 06:10 AM

Well, change is good.

lindajdunn · 04-11-2006, 10:07 AM

Thanks for the encouragment. If I may trouble members with another area of confusion: The accumulation of penalties is confusing the heck out of me. For example:

#7 states that a fencer reports to the strip with no protective plastron and a weapon that fails inspection.

the answers are
a. Yellow card for the missing protective plastron and Yellow card for the defective weapon
b. RED CARD (award a touch for opponent)
c. Yellow card for defective weapon; require fencer to get a plastron.

Clothing/equipment not working is a yellow card so I'd expect a red card for two infractions but in real life, I've never seen an official card someone with a red card for committing two infractions with one action. In fact, the one time I was on a strip with someone who forgot his plastron, the referee just shook his head and sent him off to get one. [It was NOT a rated referee.]

No, I'm not going to go through these questions one-at-a-time and bore everyone on fencing.net. Penalties are (for me) the hardest area to memorize/learn. I have copied the penalty tables from the manual, put them into a word table, printed them in color, and I'm planning to laminate them to the back of the appropriately colored cardstock and review the darn things until they stick thoroughly in my mind.

And I'm going to take the practice exam over and over and over again.

There will be exam opportunities in Atlanta during the Nationals, right?

tbryan · 04-11-2006, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lindajdunn

Thanks for the encouragment. If I may trouble members with another area of confusion: The accumulation of penalties is confusing the heck out of me. For example:

#7 states that a fencer reports to the strip with no protective plastron and a weapon that fails inspection.

the answers are
a. Yellow card for the missing protective plastron and Yellow card for the defective weapon
b. RED CARD (award a touch for opponent)
c. Yellow card for defective weapon; require fencer to get a plastron.

Clothing/equipment not working is a yellow card so I'd expect a red card for two infractions

Correct.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lindajdunn

but in real life,

Right. The exam doesn't ask what is done in practice. They ask what the rules tell you to do. There are often different customs for smaller local events where everyone knows everyone else, especially in smaller divisions with fewer fencers who compete nationally. That's why some fencers are so surprised to get carded for things like their socks falling down at national events.

The key to most exam questions: don't overthink them. What does the question ask? What do the rules say? Find the choice that best matches that answer.

Don't look through the other choices and start thinking, "Well, I've seen that done before." Even rated referees make mistakes sometimes or decide to cut a fencer some slack from time to time.

MyrddinsPrecint · 04-11-2006, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lindajdunn

#7 states that a fencer reports to the strip with no protective plastron and a weapon that fails inspection.

the answers are
a. Yellow card for the missing protective plastron and Yellow card for the defective weapon
b. RED CARD (award a touch for opponent)
c. Yellow card for defective weapon; require fencer to get a plastron.

Clothing/equipment not working is a yellow card so I'd expect a red card for two infractions but in real life, I've never seen an official card someone with a red card for committing two infractions with one action. In fact, the one time I was on a strip with someone who forgot his plastron, the referee just shook his head and sent him off to get one. [It was NOT a rated referee.]

well, if you give a group one yellow card, the next infraction for that person in that bout will NEVER be another yellow card. it will usually be a red card. so right there we can cross off a. it's not a.

all of the answers assume that a defective weapon is a group 1 offense (yellow card on first problem, then a red thereafter). so we know that they're getting a yellow for that.

so the only question left to answer is whether missing a plastron is a "go find it and come back" offense, or a "group 1" offense.

and yes, in practice, there is a great deal of precedence for "go find it and come back"......... but it's difficult to find the "go find it and come back" clause in the rulebook.... : )