Fencing Incest Breeding As and Bs?

[RoninX]

I know this is not a new topic, but I'm curious to hear people's opinions on these circumstances. A couple of imported (recently moved in to town) As or Bs that regularly attend opens start raising the tourney rating thus granting more Cs and Ds who in turn raise the tourney levels of C/D and under tournament meaning everyone is getting more letters and all tournaments are becoming more highly rated.

Within a couple of years those imported As have turned E/D fencers into Cs (and maybe in some cases high Ds might become low Bs) while the actual skill level of the region is not dramatically effected it is suddenly a highly rated region.

Sometimes this passes and sometimes the initial upswing can be maintained and keep a region rating heavy for years. Thoughts on this phenomenon? Do you believe that it happens at all?

[glowstix]

hasn't this been going on for a while?? especially in epee at least.

[mrbiggs]

It happens. There was a very well-discussed thread on a similar topic a month or two ago, if you're interested. I'll try to find that.

EDIT:

I tried to find one, but found a few.
Six Ten year-olds and One Gets an "E"
Should Div 1 Only include "B" and Above
Rating system - yet again
A5 Tournament level?
http://www.fencing.net/forums/poll.p...lts&pollid=373

The last three are a bit off-topic, but relevant.


(there's really no need to revive them....)

[MyrddinsPrecint]

Gee, and I thought there was going to be a NEW topic of fencers procreating with other fencers, creating children with amazing ratings.


I want that thread instead.

[jeff]

Originally Posted by MyrddinsPrecint

Gee, and I thought there was going to be a NEW topic of fencers procreating with other fencers, creating children with amazing ratings.


I want that thread instead.

But they're not allowed to fence until they're 14 or so, regardless of they're sooper dooper classifications!

[Black Jeebus]

I was just scared of the idea of fencers having incestous relationships... there's enough spazzes in our sport as it is!

[D+F+P=Hadouken!]

It happened here recently. Just in the last year, we've gotten 3 more epee A's, and more B's than I can count. The quality is certainly better, but its mostly because of a core group of traveling fencers that are boosting the ratings.

[rcmatthews]

Presumably its also because the lower ranked fencers get to fence better fencers more often. I mean, if two As or Bs move into the area, and at the first tournament they attend someone else wins an A, it is quite possible that the winner of the A was at an A level, but just hadn't had the opportunity to win one yet.

[Frank Pratt]

Originally Posted by D+F+P=Hadouken!

It happened here recently. Just in the last year, we've gotten 3 more epee A's, and more B's than I can count. The quality is certainly better, but its mostly because of a core group of traveling fencers that are boosting the ratings.

My count (with the help of FRED,) is 6 new As in epee in the Southeast during the past year (Butcher, Bernstein, Vincent, Schroff, Neu, and Hammond.) The latter got his "A" in foil recently, too. I'm thinking that this year's sectionals will wind up being an A4 event.

[fencerbill]

Originally Posted by MyrddinsPrecint

Gee, and I thought there was going to be a NEW topic of fencers procreating with other fencers, creating children with amazing ratings.


I want that thread instead.

There seems to be an on-going theme in your postings.

[KD5MDK]

Originally Posted by jeff

But they're not allowed to fence until they're 14 or so, regardless of they're sooper dooper classifications!

NJRPS...

That said, how common is the proposed scenario compared to regions where due to a lack of highly rated fencers, or where the top few have all achieved some particular level, everyone below them cannot improve in ratings despite improvements in skill? How many people get As at Div I NACs (who didn't immigrate from outside the US)?

[mrbiggs]

Originally Posted by KD5MDK

That said, how common is the proposed scenario compared to regions where due to a lack of highly rated fencers, or where the top few have all achieved some particular level, everyone below them cannot improve in ratings despite improvements in skill? How many people get As at Div I NACs (who didn't immigrate from outside the US)?

I've heard (but haven't seen recently) of NYC fencers driving up to connecticut for lower ratings. I think that the metro new york division is the best example of a high concentration of really skilled fencers and coaches, prompting deflated ratings.

[bigdawg2121]

I've actually heard a decent number of NYC metro area fencers complaining of the inflated ratings there too. Basically the way it works is that there are places where you go where the tournaments are ridiculously hard, and places where they aren't but at all of them have highly rated fencers. If you really want a rating in NY you can just go to local tournaments and fence and you'll get it by chance eventually, or something relativley high. This is especially true b/c alot of the highly ranked national fencers skip the tourneys and go to practice so really you have A tournaments that aren't as hard as they "should be" especially in NY.

[penguin_2000]

How does the increase in the number of "highl rated" or even "med./low rated" fencers correlate to the increase/decrease in number of fencers locally/nationally? If total membership is rising (which I think it is)... then it's nothing to be concerned about. If membership isn't increasing (as rapidly as letterholders) AND the % of high rated fencers is going up, it could just mean an evening out of skill levels at the higher end, which would actually be good for the sport in the US (assuming more people are getting better, not just good people getting worse).

[rcmatthews]

Actually, percent of people with letter ratings should increase faster than the percentage of new members, because the letters remain for four years.

[Cyranox11]

Originally Posted by MyrddinsPrecint

Gee, and I thought there was going to be a NEW topic of fencers procreating with other fencers, creating children with amazing ratings.


I want that thread instead.

Come to South Africa
Suddenly a whole lot of good fencers are marrying eachother and having kids together.
Glad I am going to be retired in 15 years time!

Its going to be a bloodbath in the pools (small competitive fencing community with a proportion of good fencers: ouch!)

[Mr Epee]

Sour flippin' grapes!

Did you know that racquetball players are classified as A, B, and C players... and you pretty much get to decide your own rating?

The elite amateur racquetball players are classified as "Open Players"

And the very highest level are the "Pros"

Here's a general guide

[pgepps]

Heh. Not to commit sacrilege, but wouldn't that be a fun way to do it: Your rating is--whatever rating you can defend! Choose one, but when you get beaten by anyone beneath your level, you drop--or something.

I know, scurrilous. Jus' imaginin'.
PGE

[MyraTrue]

The "created" ratings happen around here too. We have a tournament that happens fairly regularly, and there are some really good fencers. And then there are some really warm body fencers. And the ratings just roll down. So you have to think at a tournament, "Are they a real B, or are they a gimme-B?"

While this tends to peeve some people, and while there is an advantage of being a higher letter (reads: not being cannon fodder in the pools), in the end, your fencing will either support or fail to support your magic letter. Me? A good solid E... I've proven that something like 4 times in a year. Me? Likely to stay there, but at least I know I'm not an inflated number.

[Beowulfman6]

Originally Posted by Frank Pratt

My count (with the help of FRED,) is 6 new As in epee in the Southeast during the past year (Butcher, Bernstein, Vincent, Schroff, Neu, and Hammond.) The latter got his "A" in foil recently, too. I'm thinking that this year's sectionals will wind up being an A4 event.

I can name at least one other epeeist in the Southeast who just earned his A this year.