Ego recovery?

[pacer]

Morion,

I haven't figured out who you are, but undoubtedly I saw you at sectionals since I was there both days. I too finished last in my event - the first time I have done that. And adding to my chagrin, this "first time last place" was also my first podium finish. I showed up to fence some different people since the folks at my club are pretty much on my same level. I wasn't trying to win, but rather was trying to score touches and to see if I how I'd do against different fencers. (I already decided to try harder next time.)
As a parent, I was hoping my son would qualify. He did not. I did. (although he fenced far more consistently than I did, the men's competition was stronger). Now I am hoping he makes it in divisionals this weekend, because I really don't want to decide about going to nationals if he doesn't qualify.

[Inquartata]

Originally Posted by Fencergrl

Can I choose the fencer?

Ba-dum-pum!

I would rep you for that one, if you weren't an epeeist...


Morion, it's clear that the weapon ( and I use the term loosely! ) you're fencing is not for you and that you ought to switch to sabre to change your luck.

[Morion]

Pacer: I was the hairy looking vetran with a full beard and a pony tail fencing over on strips 2 & 3.

In regards to other comments I'm afraid I was alone out there. The other people from my salle were also fencing at the time so I have no feedback on what I was doing wrong. While I would like to get up to Phoenix to fence more it is a 2 hr drive one way and I can't normally spare that much out of my day. Since Tucson only has one club I am somewhat limited.

As to why I posted this, like it or not you folks are my fencing support group. I spend about 4 hours a week at my salle, but the majority of them are high school age so I rarely socialize with them. Outside of there this is the only fencing contact I have. I am also not worried about any of you knowing who I am. I mean if I aggravate any of you the worst that will happen is you will kick my butt on the piste which you should be trying to do anyway if we're fencing. I may only be a U but I'm trying and I'm not ashamed of who I am.

[sabreur]

Get back on the horse.

Fall off the horse.

Get back on the horse.

Fall off the horse.

Repeat until you stay on the horse.

And just because I want to post it (the last four lines are somewhat pertinent):



Under Which Lyre
A Reactionary Tract for the Times

(Phi Beta Kappa Poem, Harvard, 1946)
W. H. Auden

Ares at last has quit the field,
The bloodstains on the bushes yield
To seeping showers,
And in their convalescent state
The fractured towns associate
With summer flowers.

Encamped upon the college plain
Raw veterans already train
As freshman forces;
Instructors with sarcastic tongue
Shepherd the battle-weary young
Through basic courses.

Among bewildering appliances
For mastering the arts and sciences
They stroll or run,
And nerves that steeled themselves to slaughter
Are shot to pieces by the shorter
Poems of Donne.

Professors back from secret missions
Resume their proper eruditions,
Though some regret it;
They liked their dictaphones a lot,
They met some big wheels, and do not
Let you forget it.

But Zeus' inscrutable decree
Permits the will-to-disagree
To be pandemic,
Ordains that vaudeville shall preach
And every commencement speech
Be a polemic.

Let Ares doze, that other war
Is instantly declared once more
’Twixt those who follow
Precocious Hermes all the way
And those who without qualms obey
Pompous Apollo.

Brutal like all Olympic games,
Though fought with smiles and Christian names
And less dramatic,
This dialectic strife between
The civil gods is just as mean,
And more fanatic.

What high immortals do in mirth
Is life and death on Middle Earth;
Their a-historic
Antipathy forever gripes
All ages and somatic types,
The sophomoric

Who face the future’s darkest hints
With giggles or with prairie squints
As stout as Cortez,
And those who like myself turn pale
As we approach with ragged sail
The fattening forties.

The sons of Hermes love to play
And only do their best when they
Are told they oughtn’t;
Apollo’s children never shrink
From boring jobs but have to think
Their work important.

Related by antithesis,
A compromise between us is
Impossible;
Respect perhaps but friendship never:
Falstaff the fool confronts forever
The prig Prince Hal.

If he would leave the self alone,
Apollo’s welcome to the throne,
Fasces and falcons;
He loves to rule, has always done it;
The earth would soon, did Hermes run it,
Be like the Balkans.

But jealous of our god of dreams,
His common-sense in secret schemes
To rule the heart;
Unable to invent the lyre,
Creates with simulated fire
Official art.

And when he occupies a college,
Truth is replaced by Useful Knowledge;
He pays particular
Attention to Commercial Thought,
Public Relations, Hygiene, Sport,
In his curricula.

Athletic, extrovert and crude,
For him, to work in solitude
Is the offence,
The goal a populous Nirvana:
His shield bears this device: Mens sana
Qui mal y pense.

Today his arms, we must confess,
From Right to Left have met success,
His banners wave
From Yale to Princeton, and the news
From Broadway to the Book Reviews
Is very grave.

His radio Homers all day long
In over-Whitmanated song
That does not scan,
With adjectives laid end to end,
Extol the doughnut and commend
The Common Man.

His, too, each homely lyric thing
On sport or spousal love or spring
Or dogs or dusters,
Invented by some court-house bard
For recitation by the yard
In filibusters.

To him ascend the prize orations
And sets of fugal variations
On some folk-ballad,
While dietitians sacrifice
A glass of prune-juice or a nice
Marsh-mallow salad.

Charged with his compound of sensational
Sex plus some undenominational
Religious matter,
Enormous novels by co-eds
Rain down on our defenceless heads
Till our teeth chatter.

In fake Hermetic uniforms
Behind our battle-line, in swarms
That keep alighting,
His existentialists declare
That they are in complete despair,
Yet go on writing.

No matter; He shall be defied;
White Aphrodite is on our side:
What though his threat
To organize us grow more critical?
Zeus willing, we, the unpolitical,
Shall beat him yet.

Lone scholars, sniping from the walls
Of learned periodicals,
Our facts defend,
Our intellectual marines,
Landing in little magazines
Capture a trend.

By night our student Underground
At cocktail parties whisper round
From ear to ear;
Fat figures in the public eye
Collapse next morning, ambushed by
Some witty sneer.

In our morale must lie our strength:
So, that we may behold at length
Routed Apollo’s
Battalions melt away like fog,
Keep well the Hermetic Decalogue,
Which runs as follows:—

Thou shalt not do as the dean pleases,
Thou shalt not write thy doctor’s thesis
On education,
Thou shalt not worship projects nor
Shalt thou or thine bow down before
Administration.

Thou shalt not answer questionnaires
Or quizzes upon World-Affairs,
Nor with compliance
Take any test. Thou shalt not sit
With statisticians nor commit
A social science.

Thou shalt not be on friendly terms
With guys in advertising firms,
Nor speak with such
As read the Bible for its prose,
Nor, above all, make love to those
Who wash too much.

Thou shalt not live within thy means
Nor on plain water and raw greens.
If thou must choose
Between the chances, choose the odd;
Read The New Yorker, trust in God;
And take short views.

[PalmFrond]

Originally Posted by Morion

Now I find that my enthusiasm for tournaments is "somewhat diminished". So, should I "get back on that horse" and risk getting spanked again or hold back and try again next season? I'm not normally that fragile an ego, but this was embarassing!

For the first point, try enjoying the fencing (the process) rather than winning (the result). Much better for long-term satisfaction and much less upsetting when you get trounced - which will almost always happen, like it or not. Hell, there's only really one winner in a comp.

For the second point: Boddidharma put it very succinctly. "Get knocked down seven times, get up eight". That's the mantra I use when I get mashed, anyway.

[Morion]

Originally Posted by Inquartata

Morion, it's clear that the weapon ( and I use the term loosely! ) you're fencing is not for you and that you ought to switch to sabre to change your luck.

Thanks for the suggestion Inq. Let me explain why it wouldn't work with this simple mathematical progression:

Sabre = Very Fast

Me = Not so fast

Sabre + me = Pinata

Any questions?

[Peach]

You mean you have to be FAST in sabre? I've been doing it wrong?

On the contrary--sabre is immediate, but not necessarily fast. It's the ideal veteran's weapon because the footwork emphasizes changes in direction in tempo rather than absolute speed, and hand work must be light or risk losing row.

[BenTheEMOP]

Following Sabreur's lead and being all literary and stuff, here is something from Epictetus, the Stoic philospher, that might help:

"It is the critical moment that shows the man. So when the crisis is upon you, remember that God, like a trainer of wrestlers, has matched you with a rough and stalwart antagonist.-- "To what end?" you ask. That you may prove the victor at the Great Games. Yet without toil and sweat this may not be!"

So, fencers need to sweat and toil. Each tournament is the next step to getting more experience and climbing out of DFL place.

[Ordway]

Good advice about persistence, from all. I'll add another angle:

Why are you upset about coming in DFL? Because you CARE about how you do. Caring is a good thing. It means you are motivated to improve yourself and that you will get a lot out of what you do. When you do well, you will really enjoy it, because you care. The unfortunate flip side is that when you don't live up to your expectations, it hurts more. This is the price, but I think it is well worth paying in the long run.

One of the essential things is to make sure that your expectations match reasonably well with your ability to meet them. It is good to set your expectations a little bit high, so that it will be meaningful when you meet and exceed them but not so high *at the first step* that you are always disappointed. Progress comes in little steps.

Also take consolation in the fact that everybody deals with this in one way, shape, or form. What makes the difference is how you deal with it - and you are dealing with it well, trying to make sense of your experience and learn from it. If you always do that, you will improve yourself more.

In truth, the most learning often comes from the most painful experiences. When I look back at the key insights I've had about my fencing, the ones that made me really CHANGE how I do things, they're frequently insights that have come from failure.

Getting feedback or at least discussion time with someone else about your experience is extremely important. Whether you can have that discussion immediately after the tournament, or whether you need to cool off first to look at it objectively, depends on your state of mind, but the feedback is really helpful. I had a terribly disappointing NAC this March (even though I'd have been satisfied with the results two years ago, I did not meet my *current* expectations even remotely) but it has turned out to be a very valuable learning and motivational experience for me. That was helped along a huge amount by the fact that my coach talked with me immediately afterwards to "debrief" me and figure out what happened and where we would go from there.

Then, of course, you have to act on whatever information you get or insights you have. I've spent several weeks limiting myself to just two actions in bouting, to really figure out how to make them work.

[achilleus]

Originally Posted by Morion

Pacer: I was the hairy looking vetran with a full beard and a pony tail fencing over on strips 2 & 3.

In regards to other comments I'm afraid I was alone out there. The other people from my salle were also fencing at the time so I have no feedback on what I was doing wrong. While I would like to get up to Phoenix to fence more it is a 2 hr drive one way and I can't normally spare that much out of my day. Since Tucson only has one club I am somewhat limited.

As to why I posted this, like it or not you folks are my fencing support group. I spend about 4 hours a week at my salle, but the majority of them are high school age so I rarely socialize with them. Outside of there this is the only fencing contact I have. I am also not worried about any of you knowing who I am. I mean if I aggravate any of you the worst that will happen is you will kick my butt on the piste which you should be trying to do anyway if we're fencing. I may only be a U but I'm trying and I'm not ashamed of who I am.

It was kind of obvious you weren't too embarassed, you're sharing a lot with people here, so I figured there must be something else...

Well, there isn't too much to say here, you either love competition or you don't. If you do, pick yourself up, dust yourself, and start practicing.

Don't forget you need to practice competition skills as well as fencing skills, and as great as teammates are, you are the one holding the weapon.

[jdoiv]

If you don't have team mates to watch your bouts and point out mistakes, take a small notebook along with you. Track each bout you fence. Note your opponent and his skill level. Write down what points you lost and why (poor parry, bad distance, caught in prep, etc.). Write down what points you won and how. Use this info to identify your weaknesses and exploit your opponents. Do this religously and you will see improvements within just a couple of tournaments. Just a thought. We all have bad days, but it is those of us that learn from our mistakes that have fewer.

[chiz]

This is your ego at work, it drives you to compete and challenge your self.

Originally Posted by achilleus

...I mean when I suck at a tournament, I buy the tournament shirt, and hang it on my wall across from my bed. Every morning, the sight of that shirt reminds me of my poor performance. It gets me up, gets me to the gym, and is usually a great shirt to work out in.

In other words, my poor performance motivates me to work harder to make sure that it doesn't happen again.

Your image has taken a shot, leave that at the gym door.

Yea, I tank at tournaments, DFL, Achilleus is right on the mark, buy the t-shirt and get my A$$ in gear. Speaking of gear maybe that will save my game a new magic blade form China or was it the Philippines, could have been somewhere else.

chiz

[Inquartata]

Originally Posted by Morion

Thanks for the suggestion Inq. Let me explain why it wouldn't work with this simple mathematical progression:

Sabre = Very Fast

Me = Not so fast

Sabre + me = Pinata

Any questions?

Brother, did YOU choose the wrong metaphor to explain something to ME! Math and I have not been on speaking terms since, well, never mind how many years ago.

In any event, the thing about sabre is that it will MAKE you faster. Over time it develops just about every faculty apart from sheer brute strength. Balance, coordination, perception, timing---and speed. Albeit as Peach says skill will offset speed to quite an extent. Nothing quite like frustrating the dickens out of lightning-fast kids with careful distance, preparatory ruses and changes in tempo. ( Let's not mention the kids with all those skills AND speed, if you please. I don't like to contemplate them. )

[azfencer]

Don't listen to the dark side sabre fencers... Mostly because if you switched you would get incredibly sick of fencing the same 3* people who fencer sabre in Tucson over and over and over and over and ...
*(or however few there are at the moment)

Seriously, sectionals is always a little top heavy with more B's and C's so there are more bouts even in pools that you have very little chance to win if you are inexperienced. You scored points against almost everyone, I'd call that a small victory and just work on getting a few more touches next year!

Do travel to Phoenix for tournaments and consider going up for training once a month. There used to be good saturday practices at ASU that were long enough and well enough attended to be worth the trip, I have no idea where the best place would be now but if you can get a clubmate to come with you it can be a lot of fun.

AZ

[Beowulfman6]

Originally Posted by remise

Also, there is that *bump* in fencing where you have attended a couple "good" tournaments, done reasonably well, and then attend a tourney where you can't seem to hit the @$$ end of an elephant.

I came in last at some early competitions, and I handled that ok, but it's the comp where you expect to do reasonably well, and find your @$$ getting kicked from one end of the strip to the other that can REALLY sting.

I agree, I seem to be at that "bump" right now. I won a small event a few months ago and started to get my hopes up. I thought I could qualify for Div III Nationals, but I ended up near the bottom and failed to qualify (although I fenced OK and made the 20% cut after pools).

I was realy upset about not qualifying, plus this was the third dissapointing performance in a row for me, but I just had to sit back and realize that I was burned out with all the stress I was dealing with at school and my performance was affected. I took a week off from fencing and tried to relax, and I now feel much better, and I'm ready to hit another tourney with confidence.

The point is that sometimes a bad performace is due to outside factors in life and you can't take it too hard. Just use it as motivcation to do better in the future.

[foilz]

Originally Posted by sabreur

Get back on the horse..

That is fabulous!

I did English and philosophy, but -- sadly -- no Auden. No poets. Perhaps I have a shrunken soul.

You enlarged it.

Great!!!!

[foilz]

Originally Posted by Morion

I couldn't do anything right. I was getting beaten by people that I was sure I could normally have taken without any trouble. Instead I ended up with a secure lock on DFL. Now I find that my enthusiasm for tournaments is "somewhat diminished". So, should I "get back on that horse" and risk getting spanked again or hold back and try again next season? I'm not normally that fragile an ego, but this was embarassing!

It's hard for me, too.

I'm older than you, a recreational fencer. I have dodged more tournaments than I have fenced in, for the same kinds of reasons you mention in your post.

It sounds weird, but I'm thinking, to enjoy fencing I have to forget all that ranking stuff. I'm not a rated fencer (or anything like it) and I'm probably not going to win big tournaments. But does that mean I stay out of tournaments?

No. I should enter.

I should compete -- because when I do compete, I do better, I raise my game, and I seriously feel the anger/embarrassment at my outcomes (a nice word for defeats). Accordingly, I should be channeling those feelings into more training and better lessons in order to make myself more skilled, and more determined.

Let me let you in on a not-so-subtle secret.

Those brilliant young fencers in our clubs, and the others that come to tournaments. They take one look at us and don't think we can win, either.

Well, there's a challenge right there.

I would encourage both of us to create our own framework/benchmark/criteria for tournaments. Enter them. Enjoy them, and persevere, whatever happens.