embroidering country colors

[Joe biebel]

Have a new Negrini FIE Uniform and I would like our country colors embroidered on the pants. Who currently does this?

[DHCJr]

Technically, only Marx Enterprise is allowed to put on the USFA colors because they own all rights to the logo. Also, they do not do embroidery.

There are a number of companies that do the embroidery, but considering the above, I won't suggest anyone, but many will be at the NAC. The exact logo can be found on the FIE web site and posibly a local embroiderer could do it.

It is now required on both legs.

[yeoldearmourer]

It still a violated of a copyright design and as such he can be held libel as well for using a copyright design without permission from Marx enterprise. I would not do it for my own kids. Plus I have alot of copyright embroidery design myself. Any professional would ask if it is copyright so be carefullt.


A copyright is a copyright no matter where you get it from.

[Joe biebel]

Originally Posted by DHCJr

SNIP The exact logo can be found on the FIE web site and posibly a local embroiderer could do it.

It is now required on both legs.

That change got by me. Donald, where is that rule, and when does it take effect?

[yeoldearmourer]

The USFA is looking into a new design to be used something along the Olympic design but Addias owes that one.

[Joe biebel]

Originally Posted by DHCJr

Technically, only Marx Enterprise is allowed to put on the USFA colors because they own all rights to the logo. Also, they do not do embroidery.

There are a number of companies that do the embroidery, but considering the above, I won't suggest anyone, but many will be at the NAC. The exact logo can be found on the FIE web site and posibly a local embroiderer could do it.

It did not occur to me when I took the design to a local embroiderer that it was copyrighted. I took the logo off of the FIE website and using photomanipulation software, made it much higher quality and "cleaner". I was a little surprised when they told me (around $300.00) how much the prototype would cost (for a quantity of 1) in a decent size and backed off.

Personally, I think Marx Enterprises, has missed an excellent opportunity at the "good will" of the fencing community. They have taken an obvious mistake by the USFA (allowing submitals for the USA country colors, to not be owned by the USFA) and are trying to profit from it. I mean really, how much profit can there be in a copyright for a fencing logo for a single country. Subtract any legal fees that might be needed to enforce it, subtract the ill-will from all of the fencers that think (like I do) something like this should be in the public domain, like the American flag. Also, the technology that Marx Enterprises uses (air brushing paint or inks) is primitive in look and especially in stamina (fading) compared to an embroidered logo.

Perhaps there is a lot of money in this that I can't see. Perhaps they feel entitled to a buyout from other companies or most logically from the USFA. I don't see this ending well for them. If the USFA can change the design to one in the public domain, and have the FIE allow a second ,"grandfathered" country color scheme for a period of time, this might solve this problem.

[DHCJr]

Originally Posted by Joe biebel

That change got by me. Donald, where is that rule, and when does it take effect?

It already is in effect. Below are some of the letters that came out one after the other last year.

http://www.fie.ch/download/letters/2...1-05%20ANG.pdf

http://www.fie.ch/download/letters/2...2-05%20ANG.pdf

http://www.fie.ch/download/letters/2...3-05%20ANG.pdf

If you look at the publicity section C - Advertising which is worn or carried; 3.b - fencing clothing and equipment, you will find the rule in the FIE rule book. You can see the original on the FIE web site, or if you can't read French the Official English Translation is on the British Fencing web site.

http://www.britishfencing.com/30%20J...Pub%20Code.pdf

[yeoldearmourer]

300.00 dollars out of the ball park I run one out and by the time we got a good stitch going we firque on a price of 35.00 dollars to do one. You can thank proprint wear for this problems with the Marxs on the this one. He open up a stencil booth and told them he was going to put them out of business and this not the first small vendor he told this to. We would have made a total of 6.00 dollars off of doing one.

[Joe biebel]

Originally Posted by DHCJr

It already is in effect. Below are some of the letters that came out one after the other last year.

http://www.fie.ch/download/letters/2...1-05%20ANG.pdf

http://www.fie.ch/download/letters/2...2-05%20ANG.pdf

http://www.fie.ch/download/letters/2...3-05%20ANG.pdf

If you look at the publicity section C - Advertising which is worn or carried; 3.b - fencing clothing and equipment, you will find the rule in the FIE rule book. You can see the original on the FIE web site, or if you can't read French the Official English Translation is on the British Fencing web site.

http://www.britishfencing.com/30%20J...Pub%20Code.pdf

Thanks Donald. DOH!

[Joe biebel]

Originally Posted by yeoldearmourer

300.00 dollars out of the ball park I run one out and by the time we got a good stitch going we firque on a price of 35.00 dollars to do one. You can thank proprint wear for this problems with the Marxs on the this one. He open up a stencil booth and told them he was going to put them out of business and this not the first small vendor he told this to. We would have made a total of 6.00 dollars off of doing one.

Yeah,
I thought $300.00 was a bit high (and it was an estimate) I was going to have them put it on a patch so it could be sewed to a uniform. With the logo 6" high, on an oval patch of 7" high, the price per patch, for a relatively small run of 50 was $12.00 per unit. You would still need to sew the patch onto the pants or jacket though. The convenient thing was that they could be produced in volume and sold by any number of vendors.

As to the comment about Proprintwear. It kind of sounds like hearsay. Even if what you posted is, word for word, 100% accurate, why would they (Marx Enterprises) think this would in some way stop them from making good on their claim. Forcing a group of people to use a certain vendor is not endearing to that vendor.

[yeoldearmourer]

He doing emb work now and want Janet and us to do alterations and not emb work because we can match his prices for work

[jjefferies]

Originally Posted by DHCJr

It already is in effect. Below are some of the letters that came out one after the other last year.

http://www.fie.ch/download/letters/2...1-05%20ANG.pdf

http://www.fie.ch/download/letters/2...2-05%20ANG.pdf

http://www.fie.ch/download/letters/2...3-05%20ANG.pdf

If you look at the publicity section C - Advertising which is worn or carried; 3.b - fencing clothing and equipment, you will find the rule in the FIE rule book. You can see the original on the FIE web site, or if you can't read French the Official English Translation is on the British Fencing web site.

http://www.britishfencing.com/30%20J...Pub%20Code.pdf

I notice that Veterans' World Championships are apparenlty not covered. At least in the one document that I read.

[Joe biebel]

Originally Posted by jjefferies

I notice that Veterans' World Championships are apparenlty not covered. At least in the one document that I read.

I don't think so. I read it and thought it meant that in the listed competitions the country color logos must be "Identical". Following that paragraph is the general rule applying to all FIE competitions.

"The wearing of identical (underlining and highlighting by me) national colours (logos) is compulsory on both legs
of fencers and optional on the arm(s) and the designs must be identical for
all the fencers of the same federation for the following competitions:-
(a) Open, Junior and Cadet World Championships, all bouts, whether in
a pool, in the direct elimination or during a team match.
(b) Senior World Cup individual competitions, all direct elimination bouts
from the last 64 onwards.
(c) World Cup team competitions, all bouts in every team match.
The designs of national colours must be submitted to the FIE for homologation
by the Executive Committee.
Should clothing not conform to the design sent to the FIE (national colours), or
in the case of the absence of name or nationality on the back, the fencer concerned
shall be penalised by a Red Card each time he comes onto the piste
during the competition.

[fencerbill]

I think there are even further complications in addition to your quote. I believed it is now changed so that in team events, Grand Prix, etc. you WILL NOT BE ALLOWED TO FENCE if you do not have logos on both legs or, if teams, they are not identical.

The US can change their logo with 30 days notice to the FIE and should do so to avoid the copyright complication.

I am in favor of continuous designs on tapes that can just be sewn on by anyone. I believe that is what Canada does with maple leaves and GBR does with their flag like design. The USFA could manufacture the tapes themselves, sell them six feet at a time to anyone and keep the money themselves. How about red, white and blue stripes with spaced stars?

[yeoldearmourer]

I have a design ready to go just like you suggested fencerbill.It like this red stripe white strip wide blue strip with stars on top of the blue another narrow white strip then red

[KD5MDK]

Originally Posted by Joe biebel

I don't think so. I read it and thought it meant that in the listed competitions the country color logos must be "Identical". Following that paragraph is the general rule applying to all FIE competitions.

"The wearing of identical (underlining and highlighting by me) national colours (logos) is compulsory on both legs
of fencers and optional on the arm(s) and the designs must be identical for
all the fencers of the same federation for the following competitions:-
(a) Open, Junior and Cadet World Championships, all bouts, whether in
a pool, in the direct elimination or during a team match.
(b) Senior World Cup individual competitions, all direct elimination bouts
from the last 64 onwards.
(c) World Cup team competitions, all bouts in every team match.
The designs of national colours must be submitted to the FIE for homologation
by the Executive Committee.
Should clothing not conform to the design sent to the FIE (national colours), or
in the case of the absence of name or nationality on the back, the fencer concerned
shall be penalised by a Red Card each time he comes onto the piste
during the competition.

Is there any description of the requirements of the Veterans World Championships?

[fencerbill]

Originally Posted by KD5MDK

Is there any description of the requirements of the Veterans World Championships?

The same as a couple of years ago before they went ballistic.

FIE uniform and mask.

FIE Foil and Epee blades, S2000 Sabres.

Single National Colors on trailing leg.

Only new thing this past year was visor masks for Sabre. There were a couple of Sabre fencers from other countries who didn't come to Tampa, supposedly in protest of the visor mask requirement.

We Vets are carefully watching to make sure they don't sneak Veterans Championships into the new requirements they have for Junior, Cadet, Senior, Grand Prix, and World Cup Teams.