Overshooting the riposte

[Epee Scherma]

I'm a tall person with long arms. Generally, my ripostes have been failing. I find my opponent close to me enough after their attack is parried that we are on the borderline of infighting actions. The failure is a result of my "overshooting" the riposte. So, everytime I parry I find many of my opponents to continue closing distance. When I make the riposte, its either a miss or lands with poor technique and point control. The opponent is not where they should be according to practice and drills.

Its just a simple latteral parry 4 riposte. This shouldn't be so hard. In fact, its quite frustrating. The opponents at my club aren't tactically advanced enough where I think they are doing this on purpose for a benefit. Most of the time, provided the opponent has not launched a perfect one-temp attack, I retreat back.

I can make a techinically good riposte from medium to long distances. I've been doing that very textbook, lesson-like. Its techinically sound.

Nevertheless, I still can not deliver a decent reposte from close distance; and this is a major technical issue.
So what am I doing wrong? How can I prevent or fix overshooting of the riposte. Is the answer as simple as just, "practice parry riposte from close distance"?

Having long arms isn't always easy

[sabreur]

Originally Posted by Epee Scherma

I
Nevertheless, I still can not deliver a decent reposte from close distance; and this is a major technical issue.
So what am I doing wrong? How can I prevent or fix overshooting of the riposte. Is the answer as simple as just, "practice parry riposte from close distance"?

Or practice retreating to keep your opponents from getting too close....

[Epee Scherma]

This could be a result of my failure to retreat in time, or to react with feet. But I do feel that with the factor of my own footwork movements aside, the failure lies in other factors?

Is it apropriate to drill the nature of these ripostes? Or would it be better to practice a standard one and criticise this overshooting as a result of unreactive footwork?

[keith]

Originally Posted by Epee Scherma

Having long arms isn't always easy

remember that thing you where told about fingers first? It wasn't your coach speaking for the sake of hearing his/her own voice

So of course you have no trouble at longer distances - because at those distances your technical error (extending to early) is not exposed.

If your point is not on target before you extend you're stuffed. While this may seem slower, it really isn't, it also provides an opportunity for a disengage or other blade action during the riposte.

[Epee Scherma]

Ah! Thank you keith. I'm sure that is one of my problems. I have forgotten fingers first. Yeah my poor coach probably said that many times to me but gave up.

[pgepps]

Fingers first sounds good. I'm probably not experienced or skilled enough to tackle this, but if I may...

Would it also help to practice (a) smaller advances, along with quicker retreats, and/or (b) earlier parry, quicker riposte--opposing fencer has less time to close?

I've had similar distance problems, and find nibbling away at the problem from several angles helps me improve more quickly.

Cheers,
PGE

[Schiavona]

Practice point control drills on a fixed target. Lunge distance, advance-thrust distance, thrust distance, parry-riposte distance and close parry-riposte distance. The smaller the target, the better you'll get. My instructor had us hit our targets 25 times in a row, starting over if we missed one, before we moved on to the next drill. You can get to the point where the tip of your weapon is like the end of your finger. You don't overshoot when touching something with your finger, do you?

[jessicasimpson]

Pick up an epee and stop parrying all together
counter attack, counter attack, counter attack

[Durando]

Originally Posted by Epee Scherma

I can make a techinically good riposte from medium to long distances. I've been doing that very textbook, lesson-like. Its techinically sound.
Nevertheless, I still can not deliver a decent reposte from close distance; and this is a major technical issue.
So what am I doing wrong? How can I prevent or fix overshooting of the riposte. Is the answer as simple as just, "practice parry riposte from close distance"?

I get drawn into this sort of action all the time. Are you getting hit on the remise? When this happens to me, it is usually because I forget to hold the riposte for a moment. I often end up using wild, silly body english to compensate. Think holding it would help?

[D'Art]

Have you tried a stop-hit with opposition, while taking a half-step back?

[Epee Scherma]

Originally Posted by Durando

I get drawn into this sort of action all the time. Are you getting hit on the remise? When this happens to me, it is usually because I forget to hold the riposte for a moment. I often end up using wild, silly body english to compensate. Think holding it would help?

Yes that sounds very similar to what happens to me. They stupidly push their attack despite the fact that it was parried, and then give me one nice big pumping powerful remise with no control on me. So.. maybe not that stupid if it is working against me. YEah I often have to crunch up into pretzel to avoid their touch after my riposte fails.

[Durando]

Originally Posted by Epee Scherma

Yes that sounds very similar to what happens to me. They stupidly push their attack despite the fact that it was parried, and then give me one nice big pumping powerful remise with no control on me. So.. maybe not that stupid if it is working against me. YEah I often have to crunch up into pretzel to avoid their touch after my riposte fails.

The Russians, and ostensibly others, practice wiggling a remise around the parry. It's a great sentiment du fer drill, one to throw in along with takes and dérobéments. I think holding your riposte for a moment until your adversary's blade firms up should solve the problem. What's happening is your immediate riposte is coming off their blade thus releasing their remise into you. Such a sh1tty feeling, that.

That said, I agree with D'Art's suggestion above. But you probably have already thought of it.

[peet]

Against an opponent who jumps inside the riposte and hits with remise:

1 Retreat
2 Parry
3 Retreat again
4 While making riposte

After all your need to keep distance doesn't stop with your parry, it stops when the ref says "halt".

-p

[telkanuru]

If someone routinely closes so that my point is past their torso on the riposte, I just turn my riposte into a back flick. If I can do it posting on a french grip epee, you should have no problem

Part of the problem is also that you're using a parry-4, which is a difficult position to infight/do any 2nd intention from, especially if you take it as deep as the picture posted above. From there, I guess your best option would be to snap up into prime.

[FencingKitten]

Originally Posted by peet

Against an opponent who jumps inside the riposte and hits with remise:

1 Retreat
2 Parry
3 Retreat again
4 While making riposte

After all your need to keep distance doesn't stop with your parry, it stops when the ref says "halt".

-p

This is my thinking.

My coach has been teaching me to alter the size of my retreats based on my opponent's distance. Take little retreats, read their footwork a little, then take an appropriately sized retreat with the parryriposte based on the opponents attack. A lot of times, I have to take a fracking huge retreat, because I let people get too close, or a very tiny one if they don't lunge as far as expected, or two retreats if they're still just too close.

Of course, I fence sabre. It's damn near impossible to be too close for a riposte until it gets locked out. But the footwork applies.

[Phaeton]

Wait...epee fencers parry...

[achilleus]

It's pretty difficult to understand exactly what the issue is...

If you're too close, then issue lies with your control of distance, not with your parry technique.

That said, I'd like to know what your definition of a 'textbook, lesson-like' lateral parry 4 is.

If it's what I think you mean it to be, then it will only be effective at the proper distance. In other words, if the distance is closer, the technique of the parry needs to be altered to protect from remises, angled attacks, and other such variations.

[Grasshopper]

I am also tall with long arms so I know where you are coming from. In my opinion, just do what other tall successful fencers do and you should be OK. Have you ever seen Chefchenko (RUS) fence? He was probably the tallest foilist at the top level and had a wicked riposte. How did he do it?

Kept good distance - he would move in and out of HIS lunge distance which was longer than his opp's lunge distance and too short for opp to do a step lunge (without getting stop-hitted)

When the opponent attacked, he would step back and then do an extra HALF RETREAT (front foot is planted, rear foot extends back, pulling torso out of range) enabling him to immediately push off his back foot for the riposte.

The trick is getting your torso out of range, but still be in balance to return the riposte. (Which is not possible doing full retreats at speed. You can get away and parry, but you will be out of time on the riposte.)

Alternate this with some stop hits and your opponent will lose confidence his attack.