speaking of uhlmann reels...

[penguin_2000]

Ulhmann reels are the most realable the leon Paul the easies to work on. Farvo reels I dont like the springs & wireing setup in the design. I have all 3 and I perfer the Ulhmann

I really hate those little plastic wire harnesses... you have to re-solder the wire to change it when the side gets eaten up. Does anybody think that brass inserts would work better than plastic? Would people buy them if they were manufactured? On the other hand, has anybody tried to replace those plastic parts by cutting a slit in the top of a new one? The wire doesn't seem to come in contact with the top of the plastic harness, so I think it would be ok to cut it there (thereby preventing the need to re-solder the socket back on). Any thoughts on that?

[fencerbill]

I really hate those little plastic wire harnesses... you have to re-solder the wire to change it when the side gets eaten up. Does anybody think that brass inserts would work better than plastic? Would people buy them if they were manufactured? On the other hand, has anybody tried to replace those plastic parts by cutting a slit in the top of a new one? The wire doesn't seem to come in contact with the top of the plastic harness, so I think it would be ok to cut it there (thereby preventing the need to re-solder the socket back on). Any thoughts on that?

We in the New England Division had a very sincere helper a few years back who had many of the same ideas you have just expressed. He had a PhD in Physics and was very handy in the machine shop.

So he took all the exit blocks (Uhlmann refers to them as segments) and drilled them out and put in nice tubular steel inserts. Well that solves forever, or almost forever, the problem of erosion of the exit blocks, right?

Well guess what. If the exit blocks don't erode, what does?

The cable.

How much does an exit block cost? Maybe $5-10. How long to replace it, even if you have to take the fencer end off? Maybe 15-30 minutes until you really get in practice, then you can do it faster.

How much does replacing the cable cost? Maybe $50-60 depending on vendor and discount. Plus if you can change a cable in a lot less than an hour, I take my hat off to you.

Of course, if you have a permanent setup with the reels fixed so they stay straight, the exit blocks don't erode nearly as fast.

So which is better, wear out the exit blocks or wear out the cable?

Well, if you let the exit blocks wear through so the cable starts to cut into the reel cover, both will be worn out and you have to replace the cable anyway.

What do we do here in the New England Division? In the first place we don't let the exit blocks wear through.

As soon as they start to show appreciable wear, we fix them by building them back up with two part paste epoxy. It usually comes as one part as a cylinder and a sleeve of the second part surrounding it. We don't seem to see much difference in the different brands.

The trick to doing it conveniently is in how much you disassemble the reel. I take the cover off, pop the Mercotac contacts off the top and slip the cable through to take all spring tension off and leave about two feet of cable with no tension. Then I disconnect the exit block from the plate so I can work on it from both ends.

You cut off a little more of the epoxy than you need and mix it up with a screwdriver or a maple craft stick.

I use a medium size jewelers screwdriver to place the epoxy inside the exit block in the worn groove. You can do this while the wire stays inside the block. I over fill the ends but not in the middle and then trim the ends after the epoxy hardens. We have exit blocks we have filled several times. If the wear extends into the covers you can fill them also.

In reassembly of the reels, take the slack out and then preload the springs by about 4-5 turns. Don't forget to replace the Mercotac contacts.

We usually find we have several reels needing work and do them at the same time. With disassembly, filling and reassembly we can usually do about 4 reels in less than an hour of work. You just have to get a cup of coffee while the epoxy is hardening.

[yeoldearmourer]

No ceramic tubes works better and last longer than copper or brass which are soft metal and the fiction of the wires will cut through brass and copper without a problem. I have some of the ceramic ones for sale 10.00 a piece

[oso97]

One solution to the degredation of the housing that I've seen used in a similar circumstance, totally unrelated to fencing, but still using setup with a retracting reel and a wire, was to have the wire feed through two offset rollers. The housing doesn't degrade then, because the friction is dramatically reduced.

The reel I'm really wanting combines the low profile, solid "wieghtiness" and durability of the Faveros, with the fencer connection of the Uhlmanns, and a wire housing like described above. But I don't think anyone makes one!

[penguin_2000]

Tim-
How long does the ceramic piece last? How does it work?

fencerbill-
I wasn't sure if brass (as soft as it is, for a metal) would eat through the insulation... but I guess it is the other way around as Tim mentioned. I thought about mounting our reels to the floor, but there's so many careless people in our club (i.e. disconnect from from center of strip = ziiiip, and stepping all over foils and reels) that I thought securing them would damage them more if people kicked them. Also, in the instances where the wire gets stuck (usually due to bad exit segment), if people pull really hard it'll break the wire.

[yeoldearmourer]

What I do is I have them made and inserted into the old housing where the wire cut threw. These I have in a set is now going on 5 years and still not showing sign of wear.

[fencerbill]

Tim-
How long does the ceramic piece last? How does it work?

fencerbill-
I wasn't sure if brass (as soft as it is, for a metal) would eat through the insulation... but I guess it is the other way around as Tim mentioned. I thought about mounting our reels to the floor, but there's so many careless people in our club (i.e. disconnect from from center of strip = ziiiip, and stepping all over foils and reels) that I thought securing them would damage them more if people kicked them. Also, in the instances where the wire gets stuck (usually due to bad exit segment), if people pull really hard it'll break the wire.

The setup that really seems to work is to mount the reels on the wall or in a box on the floor where the alignment remains perfect. The Yale setup in the ancient athletic tower for example. Where there is no side pressure, the erosion of either block or wire is much reduced.

I have seen on the Uhlmann web site drawings for a box that sits beneath the floor and brings the wire up through offset rollers. But you need about six inches of clearance underneath the floor. It does allow for switching between a smooth floor and access to the cable.

We have thought of, but had not tried, some arrangement which would greatly increase the friction between the reel and the floor to avoid misalignment. Perhaps just a small square of rubber backed industrial carpet. The reel doesn't turn on the carpet and the carpet doesn't turn on the floor. Or perhaps a small piece of plywood with rubber sheeting underneath and small ridges to contain the reel.

You must remember that it isn't the cable sliding on the exit block or on a metal sleeve or on a ceramic sleeve that causes the wear. It is the dirt the cable picks up from the floor that causes the erosion. Witness how much dirt is inside the reel when you take the cover off.

You mention the cable getting stuck after some erosion. That is why you can't let the erosion build up. Repairing with the paste epoxy is easy enough that you never let it get to that stage.

[penguin_2000]

We have thought of, but had not tried, some arrangement which would greatly increase the friction between the reel and the floor to avoid misalignment. Perhaps just a small square of rubber backed industrial carpet. The reel doesn't turn on the carpet and the carpet doesn't turn on the floor. Or perhaps a small piece of plywood with rubber sheeting underneath and small ridges to contain the reel.

I thought about using those non-slip liners for the kitchen or workshop (also used to keep carpet from sliding)... haven't the motivation to drive to Wallyworld to pick up some... plus they get slippery when dirty.

[oiuyt]

I have seen on the Uhlmann web site drawings for a box that sits beneath the floor and brings the wire up through offset rollers. But you need about six inches of clearance underneath the floor. It does allow for switching between a smooth floor and access to the cable.

This is the set up that they have at TBB. Do you have a link (or can you conveniently refind the page) for the diagrams that you mention? It's a really nice solution that I'd love to have as a reference.

A solution that I've seen a couple of clubs use is a standard eyehook mounted out in front of where the wire exits the reel (small metal plate attaches to the bottom of the reel extends out to create an attachment platform). In the club where I've seen this used for an extended period of time the reel cable was doing a fairly good job of eating through the steel (?) of the eyehook. A slower process than through the plastic of the segment, and a considerably cheaper/more convenient piece of hardware when replacement is eventually required.

Given that experience, I'm not sure that I'd worry much about how well the cable holds up to rubbing friction, almost regardless of what material is used to line the guidehole.

-B

[penguin_2000]

Ok, I have a feeling I'm going to be replacing a bunch of reel-wire and exit segments this summer... would anybody care to make a photo journal of how to go about this... fencerbill, yeoldearmourer, bueller...? thanks.

[Mergs]

Ok, I have a feeling I'm going to be replacing a bunch of reel-wire and exit segments this summer... would anybody care to make a photo journal of how to go about this... fencerbill, yeoldearmourer, bueller...? thanks.

Are you looking for something that details how to take the reel apart? I have something that you might be interested in.

[penguin_2000]

Are you looking for something that details how to take the reel apart? I have something that you might be interested in.

Sure, the more info on this the better for me.