College Fencing Programs

[hello?]

Having had daughters with experiences in both state and private, I have to say that there is a HUGE difference between both. Support, interaction with teachers, etc., etc. Of course, that being said, my private college daughter will end up with loans.....She fences at a Div.1 school and loves it the team, the meets, etc......There is also a huge difference between fencing schools, even some in the same division (I think some college "clubs" are better than some Div 1 teams.) You have to talk to the coaches -- and, if at all possible, to some of the team members.....Tufts has just a club team for men but they are good and committed. So is Jason, their coach...(There is a huge club championship that's coming up -- I think there's a thread on it on this site...You can go to it and see that the club team members take their fencing very seriously too.) Also, I would not worry that much about the community service aspect. Although my daughter happened to have had it, I think colleges are looking for a passion for SOMETHING. If he can demonstrate that fencing is his passion and you can get the coach's 'blessing' (some schools, like Duke, even give you a different color envelope for your application if you are an athlete), they'll overlook the lack of experience building huts.

[prototoast]

Originally Posted by SMSEpee

Oh yeah, he fences epee. Wants to major in biology, but engineering hasn't been ruled out. Who knows at this stage...

I've got to run, but will check back in this p.m

In case you haven't seen it, the list of all NCAA schools is here: http://web1.ncaa.org/ssLists/sportBy...E&division=ALL

All of them should have websites which will give you more information. Best bet is to browse at colleges that he may find appealing, and then find out more about their fencing programs. If you ask questions about specific schools, many of us here should be able to give you more detailed information, but also any more information we have about your son should be helpful (what part of the country is he interested in going to, how good is he).

[epeemike81]

Originally Posted by SMSEpee

Gary-

Well, this momma went to a small liberal arts college, got an excellent education, and had a full ride for two years. The rest was a financial aid package. Small classes, full professors teaching, 97-98% of students applying to grad/med/law/etc. schools accepted. And I LOVED IT!!!

It all depends on the endowment as to whether the state school is less $$$ than the private. Financial aid and packaging of money is an art form these days.

But to each his own opinion.

I was a Physics Major at UMass, and literally ALL of the classes (and all of the discussion sections associated with them) in the major are taught by full professors. After the intro classes (which had ~70 people in the lecture, and 12 in discussion), I never had a class in my major over 20 students.

I've known people at top private institutions who's classes are all taught by grad students and rarely see professors.

State schools frequently get a bad rap on points like this. I don't agree that private schools are a waste of money (I went to a private high school and feel that it has served me INCREDIBLY well), but don't assume that class size, quality of education, and contact with professors are necessarily related to the type of institution.

-m

[epeemike81]

Originally Posted by RoninX

Just remember - club team fencers can fence collegiately and at regionals but cannot fence at NCAA championships as they are not cleared by the NCAA clearing house which every official NCAA athlete must go through.

depends on the region. the northeastern region does NOT allow this.

-m

[tkrivosh]

Originally Posted by epeemike81

I was a Physics Major at UMass, and literally ALL of the classes (and all of the discussion sections associated with them) in the major are taught by full professors. After the intro classes (which had ~70 people in the lecture, and 12 in discussion), I never had a class in my major over 20 students.

I've known people at top private institutions who's classes are all taught by grad students and rarely see professors.

State schools frequently get a bad rap on points like this. I don't agree that private schools are a waste of money (I went to a private high school and feel that it has served me INCREDIBLY well), but don't assume that class size, quality of education, and contact with professors are necessarily related to the type of institution.

-m

Yes, I do not doubt what you said about UMass, but then remember, you have graduated in Physics .
I am a physics professor in a state college, and I regularly start from about 20 people per class in the fall and weed them out to about 12 in the spring. But it has nothing to do with privite vs state.

[jjefferies]

Originally Posted by smurfette

You don't say what weapon your son fences or what other things he cares about. I went to the University of Chicago, and we worked hard to make it a viable club program -- ... Deleted some commentary
While your son may hope to fence in the NCAA, it is so much more important to believe in the school itself -- unless he is a candidate for a scholarship of some sort. If good fencing is nearby and accessible, that can be just as good if not better. If he is still really developing as a fencer, he may get more attention at an outside club, without the burnout factor. What weapon does your son fence? That will help people to give you more pointed responses.

I would agree with the comments of Smurfette and several others and suggest that your son think more in terms of his long term education and career and then look to see where he can combine that with a strong fencing community. A fencing career does not end with graduation from college. Indeed if he's looking at the Olympics then college will barely be the start. At Cal we're two years into turning a club into a viable competitive fencing force. But as with most "clubs" we have problems with facilities and hours being less than a university with a NCAA commitment. The upside is that in our area we have a bevy of competitive fencing facilities. The head coach at Cal has his own club which specializes in epee (I believe you said your son is an epeeist) and then of course there is GGFC and Halberstadt within a short BART ride. Not to mention the other 29 fencing clubs with full time dedicated facilities and 30 or so other clubs in the S.F. Bay Area who compete in the BayCup. So I would suggest that you might care to cast your eye a little bit further afield. But if he's up to a level of playing NCAA and can interest one of the NCAA teams then the best of luck to him.

P.S. I can't speak for other universities but at Cal if a person interests one of the sports clubs (Fencing is one) then the club can add a request that the individual receive an additional check review for acceptance. (I just learned of this last week at a meeting for coaches). The individual still has to meet Cal's admission standards. Not as good as the influence an NCAA coach can bring to bear but at a school where entrance is as competitive as Cal it can be the straw which tilts an acceptance in a student's favor.

[KD5MDK]

If he fences Epee, Texas (specifically Dallas, Austin, San Marcos, San Antonio and Houston) have very strong epee fencing, and good schools in all of them.
SMU, UT-Austin, Texas State, UT-San Antonio and Rice, to mention the most prominent in each city)

[seak]

Agree with most of what is said above. Your son should decide what sort of college he wants (small, public) what his thoughts are on a major and come up with a list of schools. If he really wants an NCAA career then he should videotape himself fencing at a relativly high level tournament and contact the coaches.

However many clubs have excellent programs and there are a fair number of collegiate fencing opportunities for club fencers. If a school on his list has a club team he should drop by one of their practices on his visit if possible (prob not over the summer, and he should let them know first). A couple of things to look at are the clubs competitive schedule what sort of coaching is available and local salle's around the college. At the University of Maryland (for example) we have a good epee coach and are pretty strong in the weapon, additionally several of our fencers train at a top notch local salle. Each club is a little different.

[Larrison]

Originally Posted by jjefferies

I would agree with the comments of Smurfette and several others and suggest that your son think more in terms of his long term education and career and then look to see where he can combine that with a strong fencing community. A fencing career does not end with graduation from college. [ ... ]

I'll echo this. Education and long-term opportunities are probably the most important. Fencing would be a good tie-breaker, but its going to have to balanced against academics and cultural/ social environment at the school. And its highly dependent upon the individual school and the major within the school too, I think. Having been through rather large state university, large private university, and small private college programs the cultural factors involved with the schools and where your son wants to go academicly and professionally post-school should have a big weight in any decision. Given all else being moderately equal, having the opportunity to continue to develop as a fencer with high quality fencing at the school or in the very nearby local community would be a good tie-breaker.

[RoninX]

Originally Posted by epeemike81

depends on the region. the northeastern region does NOT allow this.

-m

Does not allow clubs to fence vs. varsity schools, or ALSO does not allow you to fence at NCAAs... ? Nice of them to coddle the varsity programs if it is the former. I know some varsity programs in the Midwest wish they didn't have to fence some of the clubs.

[oiuyt]

Originally Posted by RoninX

Does not allow clubs to fence vs. varsity schools, or ALSO does not allow you to fence at NCAAs... ? Nice of them to coddle the varsity programs if it is the former. I know some varsity programs in the Midwest wish they didn't have to fence some of the clubs.

Don't allow club teams to enter fencers to NCAA Regionals.

As of this (recently concluded) season this is now true in all four regions, as regionals are now considered the first round of NCAA nationals and are financially supported (in part) by the NCAA.

Varsity teams may schedule club teams, although those meets don't count officially. Certainly the NCAA does not require teams to schedule against club programs, although many conferences with mixed membership do.

-B

[prototoast]

Originally Posted by Larrison

I'll echo this. Education and long-term opportunities are probably the most important. Fencing would be a good tie-breaker, but its going to have to balanced against academics and cultural/ social environment at the school. And its highly dependent upon the individual school and the major within the school too, I think. Having been through rather large state university, large private university, and small private college programs the cultural factors involved with the schools and where your son wants to go academicly and professionally post-school should have a big weight in any decision. Given all else being moderately equal, having the opportunity to continue to develop as a fencer with high quality fencing at the school or in the very nearby local community would be a good tie-breaker.

Eh, I disagree. I'd say the most important thing to look for is place you will enjoy being for an extended period of time. If you are happy there, the rest will fall into place. If fencing is what makes him happy, find the best fencing school out there (in terms of best fit on the team, not in terms of most successful team).

[MyrddinsPrecint]

Originally Posted by RoninX

My Senior year my epee squad had three NCAA caliber fencers on it (though one guy may not have fenced the requisite # of bouts). We fell a double touch short of knocking ND off for the Midwest epee title, and took second place above Ohio State that year ('02). So clubs teams can be competitive and DO fence against varsity competition - but do not get the opportunity to fence at NCAAs.

A void which is (hopefully, at least partially) filled by Collegiate Club Nationals {see several threads}


my advice has been, and always will be:

1) Look at how happy your son will be at the college aside from fencing-- academically, socially, fiscally. if he has a leg amputated a week into college, he still has to be happy there.

2) Look at how good a match the fencing program is. there are NCAA schools that don't produce good fencers. there are Club schools that do. and there's a lot of different coaches and coaching styles. even if your son gets accepted into a very good school with an amazingly strong fencing program, it could be the exact wrong choice if the coach is the wrong match.

3) don't eliminate a college from the list of options just because of fencing. consider fencing as a very important thing to consider (along with dorms, and how strong the school is in things he's interested in, and food, and size and location....)-- but most places, if it's the perfect school and less than perfect fencing, things can be worked out.

[mlr2fence]

Narrow down his top choices and then see if any of them offer summer fencing camps. This is a good way to get to know the campus, facilities and coaches.

[bigdawg2121]

I'll echo the camps thing even though I never did it myself, a lot of my friends did and it helped greatly with getting themselves recruited.

As far as level of competition that you can get from the school itself a varsity program is probably going to be more conducive to that. A varsity program will usually have more support in getting to meets, and have stronger teams scheduled than a club can or will. If you go for a club you should make sure that you're in an area where you can get good USFA competition and either a good coach at the school or in the near vicinity. There are also a few clubs that operate parallel to a varsity women's team so you can have access to their facilities and coaching. Outside of those considerations I'd imagine you can improve your fencing with either kind of team. (Although I'd have to say that while occassionally club teams are out there that are as strong as varsity teams in terms of personnel they're relatively few and far and between.)

[SMSEpee]

Thanks for all your posts!

My internet has been out....

I've gotten some good ideas of where to send him to look.

U Maryland-relatives close by, a plus for me! Duke-on his short list already.
Cal-we'll check it out, he's already interested in Stanford. He's interested in looking at Penn, and Ohio St. All such different schools!

Long term plans-who knows? As an adult, I know these will change several times over the course of his college career and his life. As a parent (who never had any parental support), I have to support the here and now.

But fencing is his passion and I think some coach will just love to get him. We've been told he's very 'coachable'. He's willing to do what it takes to improve his skills.

I especially like the idea of taping him. Are CDs the way to go these days? I saw a professionally produced CD for a baseball player years ago-too cool but a bit 'over the top'. Will coaches prefer to see them professionally made or home-made, and a personal letter from the fencer? We want to send the right thing, and not be obnoxious.

Okay, off to the web...once again, thanks to all!

[prototoast]

Originally Posted by SMSEpee

Thanks for all your posts!

My internet has been out....

I've gotten some good ideas of where to send him to look.

U Maryland-relatives close by, a plus for me! Duke-on his short list already.
Cal-we'll check it out, he's already interested in Stanford. He's interested in looking at Penn, and Ohio St. All such different schools!

Long term plans-who knows? As an adult, I know these will change several times over the course of his college career and his life. As a parent (who never had any parental support), I have to support the here and now.

But fencing is his passion and I think some coach will just love to get him. We've been told he's very 'coachable'. He's willing to do what it takes to improve his skills.

I especially like the idea of taping him. Are CDs the way to go these days? I saw a professionally produced CD for a baseball player years ago-too cool but a bit 'over the top'. Will coaches prefer to see them professionally made or home-made, and a personal letter from the fencer? We want to send the right thing, and not be obnoxious.

Okay, off to the web...once again, thanks to all!

Another question that I should ask is what does he want to get out of fencing. Does he want be a competing memeber of the team, or does he want to have the pest possible training opportunities. The top schools should provide him with excellent coaching and great people to practice with, but he could go 4 years without ever competing for the team. Other teams may not offer as strong a fencing environment, but he could start as a freshman.

[Thor the Mighty]

daaaaaaaaaaaang it looks hard to go anywhere with competitive fencing these days. i really want to persue it but im poor and am mediocre at schooling. do they have fencing at most other colleges?

[KD5MDK]

You underestimate the availability of competitive fencing.

[SMSEpee]

Originally Posted by prototoast

Another question that I should ask is what does he want to get out of fencing. Does he want be a competing memeber of the team, or does he want to have the pest possible training opportunities. The top schools should provide him with excellent coaching and great people to practice with, but he could go 4 years without ever competing for the team. Other teams may not offer as strong a fencing environment, but he could start as a freshman.

He wants good coaching, he wants to compete regularly. I suppose that if he gets to that level, and like you said, doesn't get to compete for the team, we'll still make sure he gets to the NACs and the circuit cup events. (The distant screaming you hear is from our bank account)

I've had some private messages and I feel confident that now that we have some good ideas of where to look we will find the right school academically and fencing-wise.