Plateaus

[RoninX]

I'm curious about where people have experienced their competitive plateaus. I've known alot of people who feel that "D" and "B" ratings are sticky ratings that are hard for many people to work past (Obviously "A" doesn't count as a plateau).

However I am also interested in timing, as to whether people see definitive cycles in their fencing or not.

I have rarely had a regular coach, though I have had the opportunity to take get some good intensive lessons at various stages. I feel I often make good progress for about a year, then slower progress for about another year and then I hit a wall and don't feel that my game advances much for about another year. Part of this is psycological to be sure and I feel some of the fun go out of fencing after a couple years of grinding away.

A little or alot of time off (sometimes 2 months, once a year) and I find my interest to be rejuvinated away I go again, usually into an upswing.

I know these cycles are normal in people but I was talking to a couple of fencing buddies from back in school not to long ago and one feels that he cycles through what I describe every year or so (10-15 months he says).

Is your experience similar or different?

[Inquartata]

I suspect that it's going to vary with each individual. We all have different body types, degrees of athleticism, learning styles, levels of intensity and frequencies of practice, cross-training regimes, coaching opportunities, etc., etc., etc. I don't think any generalizeable pattern is likely to emerge...

[academe]

I suspect that it's going to vary with each individual. We all have different body types, degrees of athleticism, learning styles, levels of intensity and frequencies of practice, cross-training regimes, coaching opportunities, etc., etc., etc. I don't think any generalizeable pattern is likely to emerge...

Agreed. It's important to recognize that plateaus exist, they are the result of many variables, and that one must not get frustrated as they are a normal part of any competitive sport. Also, at times, as pointed out in the opening post, you have to know when to back off, to let the mind and body rest, in order to move to the next level. Too often people reach a plateau, get frustrated, and feel that the solution to improving might be upping the intensity or training more, when what they really need is to do is reflect and replenish.

[dramamine]

Many things can explain plateaus - can be simply a mental block, not being 'ready' to rise to the next level of competition, it can be a physical difference, or usually a combination.

Sometimes you over reach (train just a bit more than you should be) and you stagnate a bit or even go backwards (mentally too) but then once you get a rest period (size dependant on how much you're overreaching) you can usually bounce back much better physically and mentally than before.

I dunno, I had an article about it by that Rippetoe guy I think but I can't find it.

[AndrewH]

If a D is sticky then a C is superglue. At least that's where I'm at now.

Actually I've determined that I am the Jason Rogers of NJ. I always finish 3rd or 4th but never actually win anything. I guess slow and steady does win the race, but it's still frustrating never to really break through.

[RoninX]

Well my question is not asked to try and formulate a master pattern of where natural plateaus are. My question is really about the timing of those plateaus and if people can see any reason why they, individually, plateau.

Do people with regular coaching at their disposal find plateaus to be a regular occurrence as well?

[telkanuru]

As far as I've observed, plateaus occur when you are assimilating some new concepts or actions into your game, and haven't really worked out how to get everything working togeather yet. Therefore, the occur possibly more frequently with a regular coach but have a shorter duration time as well.

As for sticking at a rating for a while, some of it is ability, some of it is the avaliability of competitions where you can earn that rating, and some of it is luck. For example, I can and have made the 4 of divisional events. However, My division has only one A active in local competitions, so all tournaments are B2 events, and I tend to lose to the same 2-4 people who are better than me, so earning my B within the division is difficult. Moreover, a rating dosn't matter enough to me to go to some distant local event I can win, as I can fence all the events I want.

[sabreur]

I agree with Telk that plateaus often come when you are trying to change something in your game--whether it is refining your technique or trying to introduce a higher level of tactical play.

I've had to pretty much relearn my footwork at least three times in my time as a fencer, either because I suddenly had a coach who was demanding a higher level of control and hand-foot coordination, or because the game changed (the switch from old style sabre with cross-overs and looser tempo to the very tight tempo and clean footwork of the modern game). I've also tweaked and raised my game pretty continuously. Every time that I have made a major change, it has taken several months to internalize the differences--having gone through it as many times as I have makes it easier to go through it, but it is still frustrating.

Sometimes a week break, after you've worked intensively and consciously at making a change, can do wonders to allow the changes to "settle." A break can help you quit thinking about what you've changed, so that it becomes a natural part of your game.

A couple of side notes: the more correctly you learn initially, the less you have to change later. For instance, if you learn to advance correctly from the start, you don't have to go back and correct your advance at a later date, when you already have bad form built into your muscle memory. I also am a great believer in visualization--when you are trying to master a new action or movement, close your eyes for a second, and imagine how it will feel to execute the sequence correctly. And taking dance can do a lot to help you learn body control and how to execute new movements successfully.

[Durando]

Do people with regular coaching at their disposal find plateaus to be a regular occurrence as well?

Yes. (When I was in college I took two lessons per week, now I take one). Short plateaus come when, as others have observed, you are trying to integrate a new concept. It is more difficult to say where the longer ones come from. Fatigue? Lack of inerest/passion? Mediocre competetive results?
Like any complex skill sport, fencing is fiercely demanding and therefore gratifying to learn in the beginning stages. After those first few years it's a grind where love of the sport and discipline become very important.

One way out of the swamp of frustration that is a long plateau is to keep a detailed training log--you (I) need a more refined measure than ratings or point standings. Keep a training log and then read your previous entries when you feel you've hit a plateau. Any evidence of change in your performance becomes interesting during those periods.

I agree with the poster who said that a break can be very beneficial as you stop thinking about fencing all the time. I totally overthink my fencing and admire those athletes who succeed at an instinctive/physical level--so my training log is also way of giving my brain something to do, which may or may not be related to my fencing. (It's also handy for recording phone numbers.)

[Ordway]

My experiences have been similar to others' in this thread.

Short plateaus are a natural result of learning new things. Your brain and body have to assimilate the new material before moving to new things. I have experienced these on many occasions. They have gotten shorter as I have "learned how to learn" better.

Longer plateaus are a result of having assimilated all the new material you have on hand, and not being pushed to take on new challenges. I am just recently (well, a year ago) coming off of one of these. To get past this kind of plateau it is helpful to have a coach who will push you, and to put yourself into new and more challenging environments *on a regular basis*.

[D+F+P=Hadouken!]

I'm at a plateau right now, but its mostly injury related. I have no lunge because I have a slow lunge recovery because I dont lunge because I have a weak lunge recovery because I didnt lunge because I had a grade 2 adductor longus sprain. I've got a very good fleche though, like little cuomo. Unfortuneately, its the only decent attack I have, so its predictable. Do your warm ups, biotches.

[Mihail]

I've been in a plateau for 8 years.

Any day now...