Defining the Product: What are the benefits of fencing?

[Mr Epee]

Originally Posted by Allen Evans

One of the the other aspects of fencing that defines it as a product is its conduit for self-expression.

Thank you, once again, Allen.

I'm pretty sure this was the recognized fourth primary motivation for sport participation. I'm going to edit it back into my original post.

[Fechter1]

Ok, are we talking about marketing fencing as a sellable product (ie. TV coverage), or in terms of attracting new fencers?

[Mr Epee]

Participation.

[keith]

Originally Posted by Mr Epee

Participation.

Hmmm well how about a slogan;

"Fencing. It's worth driving 50 miles for!"

[RoninX]

That'll be a big winner with those SUV driving fencing parents... $30 for a lesson $35 for the gas to get there...

[jdoiv]

Originally Posted by RoninX

That'll be a big winner with those SUV driving fencing parents... $30 for a lesson $35 for the gas to get there...

Watching little Johnny win his A... priceless

[jdoiv]

so the last post killed this thread. Guess my humor didn't catch on. But thinking of good marketing campaigns, I thought it was funny and ironic.

Anyway, here is a question that I would be interested in knowing. Are there any studies that show any benefit to fencing? I found some info on Graduation Success Rates for Division I schools on the NCAA site that had some fencing info. But it doesn't show the data and is only Division I. Does anyone know of any other published reports or research papers? Does the USFA have any info on this?

[hpfencing]

In Amarillo we started putting
"Modern Competitive Swordfighting"
on our ads, and stuff and it has made a difference. I'm not even getting calls asking me to build fences anymore.

I think people are attracted to the word SWORD.

Just a thought....

[chefencer]

Originally Posted by jdoiv

Watching little Johnny win his A... priceless

I thought it was funny...
I don't know of any reports/papers on the benefits, but from a parent's point of view I am pleased with the possible schools available for fencing athletic scholarships. We've got a long way to go with both skill level and age before that becomes a serious consideration, but it does lurk in the back of a parent's mind because it seems more achievable then so many other options (football, et al), hovering right next to the benefits of becoming an eagle scout and taking a good PSAT. One encourages activities and interests that might be of great benefit later on - it sure can't hurt - even if he chooses to fence sabre (well it CAN hurt, but not his academic chances). I would submit that if there is a study relating how well fencers do in their lives it would show successes, but that would be primarily because the type of person that is attracted to fencing is generally already on that road. People on F-Net aren't cool because they fence, they fence because they're cool...

[Morion]

I am!?!?!? When did that happen?

[RoninX]

Originally Posted by chefencer

I thought it was funny...
I don't know of any reports/papers on the benefits, but from a parent's point of view I am pleased with the possible schools available for fencing athletic scholarships.

There are a few out there but there are MANY fewer fencing scholarships out there than major sport scholarships. What scholarships are out there also tend to be partial tuition rather than full or tuition/room/board. Additionally your child will be competing with european fencers for those scholarships as well. So good luck with the P-SAT, SAT and all the rest 'cause that is a much better bet for a scholarship than fencing.

[chefencer]

True, the financial pickin's are smaller, but the pool of candidates is exponentially smaller and the places where it is available are of excellent quality. Considering the fewer injuries and the staggering growth in fencing programs/competitions available to high schoolers, this is the most promising athletic outlet for us, plus it certainly spruces up the transcript... That's a benefit all parents understand - and I propose our sport has more cache than any other combat sport, academically, simply because of the image the sport already has - to put us back on the marketing track: Fencing = smart/upscale/"The Economist" readers. Image generally only runs tangentially to truth... That's why in commercials fencers discuss their financial portfolios and insurance while rooted to the floor, casually exchanging wide parries and insipid thrusts towards that ubiquitous red heart they have on their jackets.

I've already stated my premise that the mini-van is the future of US fencing, but while we're waiting for the revolution, I suggest that the demographic be expanded by emphasizing the elements of character that play such an important part of the sport and that touch deeply on the American psyche: resourcefulness, adaptability, individuality, perserverance, *fill in your favorite character trait from your favorite Western movie here*.

[Craig]

Originally Posted by RoninX

There are a few out there but there are MANY fewer fencing scholarships out there than major sport scholarships.

Ah, but scholarships by themselves are not the only college benefit. A lot of getting into your "Tier 1" school is positioning yourself better than your peer group. If everyone else has done soccer and basketball, but you are on the Junior circuit for fencing, then that makes you stand out just a bit more.

This doesn't get you a scholarship, but it could be the difference between being accepted into your 1st choice or 2nd choice school.

A lot of the other benefits to fencing are the same as you'll get with Kendo or other martial arts. The thing there is to find what are the Unique benefits of fencing. (Which I think Peach pretty much nailed earlier.)

Craig

[jdoiv]

gradrates.jpg

shows fencing as the 3rd highest rate for men and second for women

[RoninX]

Craig: No doubt. Fencing can help you get into school. It may even help you get a little money to go to a good school, but you are much more likely to get into a good school and get some money through test scores and academic scholarships by themselves or (ideally) in conjuction with fencing than through fencing all on its lonesome.

jdoiv: yeah, I'm not sure exactly how that chart relates to the subjects under discussion (which as usual isn't the one named in the thread title - but I already tried to unjack this thread once)

[TrainingDummy]

I fence because I am an individualist to a fault. I used to play soccer, and I still love the game, but was never very good at it. When my team lost, I felt guilty. When my team won, I had a hard time sharing in the glory. In fencing, if I lose it is because of ME, if I win it is because, for those few touches, I was the better fencer. For the seven months I have been fencing I have watched my skill climb slowly but surely. As an epeeist, I was elated to, out of nowhere, pull out a perfect bell guard parry and riposte to the inside elbow, one light. I was more shocked than my opponent. I don't know how you market a feeling like that. My opposition parries weren't working so I used a tactic I had never used in a bout before to my success. I lost 5-3 but it was a huge victory for me. For ME, not for anyone else. I don't know how to market the feeling I got when my mind, body, and sword worked in perfect harmony, but it's moments like that that keep me fencing. Maybe free demos or something, people like free stuff.

[KD5MDK]

Originally Posted by Poulet

That chart is essentially measuring "Which sport that can be played at a college level is least likely to encourage students to drop out of college and play full-time or cause students to neglect their studies?"

So, "Which sports is it hardest to make a living at"?

[RoninX]

Originally Posted by Poulet

A potential ticket into a top-tier college is definitely relevant to "benefits of fencing".

But that chart has nothing to do with tickets to college. It just means people who fencer don't drop out of school or go pro early as often as basketball players.

[jBirch]

Depends who you're marketing to.

To inner-city kids, it's a chance to make social contacts and to participate in a sport associated with being rich. To kids in general, it teaches distance, timing and an appreciation for the effects of intelligence in sport. It is one of few sports that really teaches the kid to think quickly and accurately.

To teenagers, it looks good when applying for university and is a sport where it is possible to get some good travel experience competing at international events. There's even a relatively clear path to the Olympics if you are good enough. That, and there are some wicked-hot chicks that fence. My female friends say that the guys are pretty smokin' too.

To the professional, you get to hit people with metal sticks. Not much else as the 20-40 crowd pretty much fence the Olympians up here, and getting thrashed as a newbie with no hope of getting better just isn't fun.

To the older sort, fencing is one of few sports you can do up until you're ninety. We all know those crafty old blighters that are still treacherous even if they do have to slow down a bit.

Universally, fencing offers pretty much the same benefits as tennis but without the multi-million dollar possibilities. It put it up with Tennis instead of Kendo because of the European influence of the sport. That European quality adds a touch of high society to the notions of the sport and is a prime image benefit to exploit.

James.

[jdoiv]

Originally Posted by Poulet

That chart is essentially measuring "Which sport that can be played at a college level is least likely to encourage students to drop out of college and play full-time or cause students to neglect their studies?"

Statistics without context are meaningless.

[qoute]Preliminary federal rates

Both the federal rate and the GSR track the most recent cohort, the entering class of 1998-99. Preliminary data from the federal methodology shows student-athletes graduating at a rate of 62 percent.

It also appears that the federal rates for football and men's basketball student-athletes in the 1998-99 cohort will remain steady -- about 54 percent and 44 percent, respectively. The latter continues to be the lowest for any sport.

The GSRs within both sports show that more student-athletes are actually graduating than reflected by the federal rate -- 64 percent in Division I football (65 percent in Division I-A, 63 percent in Division I-AA) and 58 percent in men's basketball. Those two sports, however, still show the lowest rates by sport in the GSR calculation. Baseball and wrestling are next at 65 and 66 percent, respectively. [/qoute]

For the full article please go to http://www2.ncaa.org/portal/media_an...s/4226n01.html

As far as what it brings to the topic at hand? Well, if you are looking for benefits of fencing, I would think that a higher percentage of graduation versus other sports would be a plus.