The United States of Burrito Men

[Inquartata]

Originally Posted by lochinvar

I also left the hometown where I was raised and moved to another state because of the uncivilized behavior of some close neighbors. Loud music, junk cars all over the lawn, wild parties at all hours of the night, fireworks, overcrowding, etc., etc.

In my case the neighbors were ignorant rednecks, all red-white-and-blue, Chevrolet and apple pie natives at least three or four generations removed from their immigrant forbears.

Lack of class and culture is defined neither by nationality nor immigrant status.

When I first moved into the neighborhood in which I now live, most of the residents of the area were elderly folks. Their lawns and driveways were immaculate and the streets and sidewalks were well kept. Slowly the demographic changed: more families, some of them the sort you mention, Loch...predominantly white lower class ( or sans class ). Some of the lawns started to go untended; kids' toys started to be scattered around; junker cars were parked on the streets, tires flat, dust-covered, for months or years. That sort of thing. One guy fancied himself a drummer, he'd practice all day maybe once a month. Occasional loud music, but not intolerable.

A couple of years ago, though, the neigborhood went barrio. I don't know they're illegals, but I suspect it strongly. I'd estimate that 90% of the neighbors now speak Spanish either primarily or exclusively, and if they aren't illegals they are at least recent immigrants.

Now there's trash everywhere: beer bottles, Mexican soda bottles and candy wrappers, plastic grocery bags from Spanish markets, batteries, gad, so much trash! Every time the wind blows I have to pick up a bag full from my yard---but not all of it is light enough to have been wind-borne, much is just tossed there. And then there's the dog "residue"...

Car parts, building supplies, dissassembled whatevers strewn around, porches crammed with junk. A few homes and yards are very well-kept indeed, if overly busy with flower beds and lawn furniture and whimsical folk art, but the majority are garbage heaps and junkyards. Parties, outdoor parties many of them, every weekend, blaring mariachi music, people wndering around, sitting on people's cars, standing in their yards, discarding food and cans...but at least those are family gatherings. The parties during the week, by small groups of young men, are worse: music from cars parked on lawns, all doors and trunks open the better to let the music out---Spanish gangster rap or ranchero stuff in this case, usually. Loud drunken conversation, occasional fights. Often after midnight, lasting until daybreak. Even the long-time Hispanic residents complain. It's a cultural clash, andI'm told these behaviors are widespread in Mexico and hence are expected to be tolerated when exported here. Sometimes they'll quiet down readily when asked, other times they'll do so for half an hour then resume, other times they just get surly. There's a noise ordinance, but it only applies after 11 p.m. and the police have higher priorities, so they almost never show for a complaint ( which must come from two households ).

Sometimes it's during the day midweek as well, since employment seems to be somewhat erratic, despite the brand-new tricked-out pickups and SUVs with impressive stereo systems everyone seems to drive, the satellite dishes. If you're lucky it's desultory home remodelling projects rather than thumping mariachi music; if not it's both at once.

I've found extension cords plugged into my outside power outlets---getting wired for electricity in Mexico can take months or years, so the practice of hooking up illegally to existing sources is common there and seen as acceptable. I guess it's a habit being imported, to save money in this case. My garden hose gets "borrowed" regularly as well. I chain up my lawn mower now.

The only good thing I can say is that some of the neighbors take months-long "vacations" back home to Mexico sometimes. It's the only peace to be had.

All hail those "just trying to make better lives for themselves"...and worse ones for everyone around them.

There! That was a tolerably querulous screed, wasn't it?

[Inquartata]

Originally Posted by lochinvar

Thanks, Inq. I needed a good laugh. I appreciate the way you're always thinking of your colleagues.

You're welcome.

demand and supply are dynamic and interactive entities. Price increases when supply decreases, but demand decreases as price increases.

Not exactly. Quantity demanded tends to fall as price increases. That is, we get a leftward movement along the demand curve. If illegal immigration were to be successfully curtailed without opening up a commensurate opportunity for legal immigration, the entire supply curve shifts to the left: quantity is less at every price/quantity point. You're conflating a secular shift on the one hand with a change in quantity on the other.

A new equilibrium is indeed reached, but at a position where wages are higher but fewer workers are employed. All of this is contingent, of course, on the market for the goods and services produced by the low-wage worker remaining constant. If employers wish to maintain current profit levels and per-worker cost goes up, then the number of workers must go down.

Right.

And substitutions of capital for labor won't necessarily help the "poor white, black, legal immigrant, Asian, Native American, and Jewish" populations, which seems to be the crux of the arguement against allowing cheap immigrant labor into the country.

Not mine. Economics doesn't care about "helping" anyone ( or hurting them, either ). It's an implacable force for efficiency, not morality.

Axiomatic in a market driven system. What I posit is that there are few elasticities in the food production system. You are, of course, free to disagree.

If you're talking about staples in perfectly-competitive markets ( or as near as they get in mixed economies ) such as, say, wheat or milk or raw vegetables, sure. But not every foodstuff is like those, and once they get to the processed stage all sorts of other things, like brand loyalties, start to interfere...

[lochinvar]

Originally Posted by Inquartata

There! That was a tolerably querulous screed, wasn't it?

Not bad, not bad...I'd give it an 87...easy to dance to, but somewhat derivitive...

[ReverseLunge]

Originally Posted by Morion

OK RL you have officially gone over the edge now. I would strongly recommend that you march yourself off to the nearst mental hospital and have yourself comitted.

BTW using your logic can I assume that all Anglos born in LA are flame baiting board trolls?

Think about it. If you round up illegals and send them home and within a few hours they are back then what are you going to do? After a while you will see that it is useless and you will have to do stuff like place guards along the border with orders to shoot and kill.

[jBirch]

Interestingly, we seem to have the reverse problem up here: illegal *American* immigrants trying to stay in our country.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl.../National/home

James.

[ReverseLunge]

Originally Posted by jBirch

Interestingly, we seem to have the reverse problem up here: illegal *American* immigrants trying to stay in our country.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl.../National/home

James.

Come on man. Thats not a problem. We aren't like the Mexicans.

The problem isn't the Americans but the French Canadians and you know it!

[jBirch]

Originally Posted by ReverseLunge

Come on man. Thats not a problem. We aren't like the Mexicans.

The problem isn't the Americans but the French Canadians and you know it!

True, true. But then if we kicked them out, we'd have to give up Poutine, Celine Dion, the Montreal Canadiens, making of fun of Americans in French, cereal boxes with "Gratuit" things in them, real cuisine, Circue de Soleil, Just for Laughs. Y'know, all the good things there are to be being Canadian.

*grin* As much as we complain about how much the Quebecois whine, we are quite fond of them and would rather they stay. Besides, where would we export them to? New Orleans?

James.

[ReverseLunge]

Originally Posted by Inquartata

people wndering around, sitting on people's cars, standing in their yards

I came out of Home Depot today and that exactly what happened to me. Three illegal guys leaning against my car and chit chatting. I pressed remote to unlock the car and they still didn't move even after hearing the "chirp". Only after asking them did they slowly get out of the way only to go lean on the SUV parked next to me.

It that kind of behavior acceptable in Mexico or something?

[ReverseLunge]

Originally Posted by Trainer83

I guess there are always ways to solve this ultimately with an "I don't care" attitude that says stick it to them however we can, but that usually leads to a bloody war as a solution with people's heads being chopped off and bodies being shipped home in plastic bags and lots of orphans.

So what solution are you proposing?

I'm not interested in killing or chopping off heads. They are breaking the law and that need to be stopped.

Round them up, take them back home in a humane manner, post armed guards along the border with orders to shoot to kill in order to uphold the law. If thats not enough them put landmines along the border with big red danger signs in Spanish.

[ReverseLunge]

Originally Posted by lochinvar

Obviously you don't understand at all how business works. Businesses always pass cost burden--any cost burden--to consumers. That's the definition of "overhead" and "cost of production", both of which are recouped before profits are taken. Increase the cost of production and prices must rise if a business is to maintain a profit margin.

I guess I don't know as much as you.

I have part ownership in a restaurant and I can tell you that we dont hire illegals and we are doing just fine. We pay our workers and average of $8 an hour and tips are divided equally. When you come to our place you will not have resentful people taking your order or preparing your food.

At my house I pay the neighbor's son $12 a week to mow the lawn and do the gardening. The kid does all the houses on the street so he is happy.

[lochinvar]

So if you know all this about business, why are you spouting nonsense about the cost of low wage labor? You know better.

[ReverseLunge]

Originally Posted by lochinvar

So if you know all this about business, why are you spouting nonsense about the cost of low wage labor? You know better.

Have you ever owned a business with more than 1 or 2 employees?

[ReverseLunge]

Originally Posted by Inquartata

A couple of years ago, though, the neigborhood went barrio. I don't know they're illegals, but I suspect it strongly. I'd estimate that 90% of the neighbors now speak Spanish either primarily or exclusively, and if they aren't illegals they are at least recent immigrants.

Now there's trash everywhere: beer bottles, Mexican soda bottles and candy wrappers, plastic grocery bags from Spanish markets, batteries, gad, so much trash! Every time the wind blows I have to pick up a bag full from my yard---but not all of it is light enough to have been wind-borne, much is just tossed there. And then there's the dog "residue"...

Car parts, building supplies, dissassembled whatevers strewn around, porches crammed with junk. A few homes and yards are very well-kept indeed, if overly busy with flower beds and lawn furniture and whimsical folk art, but the majority are garbage heaps and junkyards. Parties, outdoor parties many of them, every weekend, blaring mariachi music, people wndering around, sitting on people's cars, standing in their yards, discarding food and cans...but at least those are family gatherings. The parties during the week, by small groups of young men, are worse: music from cars parked on lawns, all doors and trunks open the better to let the music out---Spanish gangster rap or ranchero stuff in this case, usually. Loud drunken conversation, occasional fights. Often after midnight, lasting until daybreak. Even the long-time Hispanic residents complain. It's a cultural clash, andI'm told these behaviors are widespread in Mexico and hence are expected to be tolerated when exported here. Sometimes they'll quiet down readily when asked, other times they'll do so for half an hour then resume, other times they just get surly. There's a noise ordinance, but it only applies after 11 p.m. and the police have higher priorities, so they almost never show for a complaint ( which must come from two households )

What are you going to do about it Inq? I would have moved long ago. Are you married to Hispanic woman or something? Perhaps some of your neighbors are also you in-laws?

[lochinvar]

Originally Posted by ReverseLunge

Have you ever owned a business with more than 1 or 2 employees?

As a matter of fact, I owned an office supply store for 12 years before Office Max, Staples, Office World, etc. came in to whore up the market and drive all of us mom-n-pop operations out of business. At my zenith I had six employees.

Which is why I know that you are spouting nonsense. And so do you.

[Inquartata]

Originally Posted by ReverseLunge

What are you going to do about it Inq? I would have moved long ago. Are you married to Hispanic woman or something? Perhaps some of your neighbors are also you in-laws?

In the words of that pizza advertisement, "I fear change".

Actually, I am very set in my ways, but more importantly home prices where I live have more than tripled in the last 2 years. At least where I live is cheap.

Not that I have the free time to look for somewhere else to live anyway. Much less to confront the prospect of the moving process.

[ReverseLunge]

Originally Posted by Inquartata

In the words of that pizza advertisement, "I fear change".

Actually, I am very set in my ways, but more importantly home prices where I live have more than tripled in the last 2 years. At least where I live is cheap.

Not that I have the free time to look for somewhere else to live anyway. Much less to confront the prospect of the moving process.

Well I havent's seen that commercial but wouldn't it be a good idea to sell the house for such a profit and move to leisure world? Do you have kids that can help you move?

[PeterGustafsson]

Hi!

Originally Posted by Inquartata

In the words of that pizza advertisement, "I fear change".

Actually, I am very set in my ways, but more importantly home prices where I live have more than tripled in the last 2 years. At least where I live is cheap.

Well, I would recommend that you install a switch indoors to the electrical outlet outdoors. Then they will not steal your electricity, at least.


Have a nice time!

Peter Gustafsson

[ReverseLunge]

Originally Posted by PeterGustafsson

Hi!




Well, I would recommend that you install a switch indoors to the electrical outlet outdoors. Then they will not steal your electricity, at least.


Have a nice time!

Peter Gustafsson

Don't make fun of him. Who the eff are you to make fun of him? I like him a lot. He has some quirky things about his personality like alway having no time to do things. It's kind of silly to say that you don't have time to find a new house or wash you underwear or fencing uniform when you have like 12000 post but I kind of feel for him. Many seniors are set in their ways and I respect that. I just don't want them to be abused or feel like second class citizens in there own communities.