Wire Gadget to Record Epee Touch at Olympics

[Mr Epee]

An electrical device will be used instead of judges for the epee contests at the Olympic Games next year, it was learned yesterday from Miguel A. de Capriles, chairman of the bouts committee of the Amateur Fencers League. The fencers will compete in a harness that will not impede their motion. A battery of small flashlight coils will register touches and will show which touch was made first.

A wire will extend from a reel on the wall to the fencer's belt, and then underneath his jacket to his glove it will be connected with the tip of the epee. The device was perfected by Hugh Alesandroni, a former national foils champion, and Al Skebisch, amateur fencer and electrical engineer. Both are Columbia graduates.

New York Times
October 3, 1935

[hpfencing]

WOW look how far we've come!

[larkmaj]

and the window for the double touch was 1/25th of a second as that is the shortest window they could do electronically.

[DHCJr]

How is that different from a number of boxes we have now, except you don't have to wear a harness. The top of the line Favero will record touches. How do the fencers know when to start? How does the box stop the fencers who get in dangerous situations? How does the box know that someone didn't hit their own foot or the table or outside the piste?

I think this is a joke.

Boy did I fall for this, I forgot to read it all the way through. Good one!

[oiuyt]

I think this is a joke.

Not a joke, you can find this article in the on-line NYT archive.

Harness refers to the reel hookup perhaps?

-B

[Mr Epee]

Yes, it's real.

I was strolling the library when I saw a book of old NYT articles about a variety of indoor sports, flipped it open and immediately found about 6 pages of fencing stories dating from the late 19th cent through the mid 1970's or so... I thought that one was interesting, so I typed it out for everyone.

There was another interesting piece about an Italian being banned for life from the Olympic Games for trying to instigate a duel with one of the officials after/during the 1924 games.

[yeoldearmourer]

This never come off for the Olympics they used a European Design that was used In the 1935 in Poland at the European Championship. This is from Joe Brynes who have the article

[BySword]

I think this is just not practical, just as DHC says.
what if you hit the groung (outside the strip) and how the box know when to give yellow card, etc.

[larkmaj]

I think this is just not practical, just as DHC says.
what if you hit the groung (outside the strip) and how the box know when to give yellow card, etc.

I see some people aren't getting it, read the date at the bottom of the post.

[fencerbill]

The article said they were getting rid of the JUDGES, not the president of the jury, not the director, or, as we would say now, the referee. They were just getting rid of the people who JUDGED whether the touch arrived.

And it is not 1/25 of a second, it is 1/40 of a second.

And the boxes were not electronic, they were electric-they used coil relays. And the double touch duration was the fastest they could reliably get the relay to prevent the other weapon from scoring another touch.

[larkmaj]

And it is not 1/25 of a second, it is 1/40 of a second.

Try again, 40 milliseconds = 1/25 second. Appendix B, Section B, subsection b. One of the few timings that has not changed.

[keropie]

B. EPEE
(a) Principle
The apparatus registers when contact is established between the wires forming
the circuit in the épée, thus completing the circuit.
(b) Timing
The apparatus must register only the first hit which is made. If the interval of
time between two hits is less than 40 milliseconds (1/25th of a second), the
apparatus must register a double hit (both signal lamps must light up simultaneously).
When the interval is greater than 50 milliseconds (1/20 of a second)
the apparatus must register only one hit (only one signal lamp is lit). The tolerance
allowed for timing the apparatus is that between these two limits (1/25th
and 1/20th of a second).

So it's evidently anything between 1/25 and 1/20 of a second.

[Gav]

There's a Pathe clip of a demonstration of Epee with "the new electrical scoring device" in their archive. Check it out. Looks nice and Vernes-ish.

[fencerbill]

Try again, 40 milliseconds = 1/25 second. Appendix B, Section B, subsection b. One of the few timings that has not changed.

You expect perfect memory at my age?

[Zilverzmurfen]

I thought that one was interesting, so I typed it out for everyone.

Very interesting, thanks for sharing!