ok...bad ref calls, bad rule "interpretations", and other problems

[downunder]

Originally Posted by seak

I heartily agree on watching an experienced ref apply the rules. I was reffing a local dual meet this weekend and one of the fencers was getting very angry with me:

His opponent was starting his attack coming in with a partly bent arm and then fnishing with an extension and lunge. The fencer who was getting angry was counterattacking into the fencer with the bent arm by straitening his arm and then lunging as the other fencer lunged, however his arm was fully extended first.

He had apparently been told that in order for it to be an attack your arm must be fully extended first. He didn't believe me when I tried to explain the way attacks were being called so I told him to ask some refs down at Clemson this weekend

extending does not equal extended

[rory]

I can answer the original post very easily.

"Suck it up, buttercup".

[fencingfrog]

oog, bad refs can be really bad.

i had a racist, snippy ickky ref at states this year, and some of my friends had him at the jo qualifiers. he would get mad at us fencers for his mistake, and wouldnt admit it. for instance, he called fencers 2 and 7 at least 3 times. then after the bout he started telling off the girl i fenced because he said numbers 2 and 5 should have fenced. everyone heard him, and no one was going to stand up to him. he was pissed enough...
and this one girl had a 45 degree bend in her blade when the halt was called and he blamed her. he started saying i cant touch it and stuff. she couldnt fix it, so (with the really mad ref watching) called her coach and he tried to fix it. the ref then told of the coach for coaching the girl - and he wasnt even talking- and the girl for trying to even out the bend by bending the blade two ways. she over bent, and tried to fix it and got yelled at. and so what does the ref do? he takes her foil, and fixes it. wtf. (pardon my french, but he had said he wasnt allowed to, right off the bat)

[Mauler]

Interestingly enough, I've personally called for Bout Committee involvement while I was a referee in a couple of occasions.

1) It was around the time when I was just learning/experimenting with how to identify and assign fault in cause of corps-a-corps. I was given a basic "crutch" to use which was a great start since it covered most of the typical instances of corps-a-corps. It just so happened that the particular situation I encountered did not fall into such category. I used the same principle anyways to assign fault, and I made the call. Afterwards the penalized fencer and I exchanged a "No way... Can't be!" look. It was clear to all of us that my call just didn't make sense.

So I first established the facts of the matter as I saw to both fencers and coaches. Then I volunteered that I myself wasn't sure whether my application was correct or not. And I offered to get the Bout Committee to go over my ruling.

It turned out to be one of those situations where common sense should've overriden blanket directives. My mistake was quickly corrected right then and there, and we proceded with the bout.

By taking that step, I saved a lot of time and grief as a developing referee.

2) The other situation where I called for the Bout Commitee involvement is where I was 100% certain that I was correct. A bout had ended with a fencer crossing lateral boudary while near his end of the strip, and consequently being "artificially" placed on guard behind the rear limit.

The coach had never heard of such a rule, and the affected fencer (very young) was quite distraught. Emotional dynamics of the situation prompted me to go into customer service mode, rather than pushing for techinical/procedural correctness. I was way ahead in processing the DE bouts in my quadrant anyways.

So before the coach shifted into the appeal/argument mode, I postured that this was the correct application of the rule "as far as I understood it." But if he would like, I can hold off on this decision until we can verify this with the Bout Committee first (only two strips away). Of course, I knew 100% that the call was correct. But I opted for a customer service angle instead, and I acted as if I wasn't 100% sure and I would welcome a correction.

It turned out the gesture worked out great, and it defused the emotions very nicely, with the coach returning to hug the crying fencer and thanking me for the opportunity to verify.