A Question about Second Intention Strategy - Fencing.Net Discussion
topleft topright

Go Back   Fencing.Net Discussion > General Fencing > Fencing Discussion

Closed Thread
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-27-2006, 02:23 AM   #1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 667
gladius has a reputation beyond reputegladius has a reputation beyond reputegladius has a reputation beyond reputegladius has a reputation beyond reputegladius has a reputation beyond reputegladius has a reputation beyond reputegladius has a reputation beyond reputegladius has a reputation beyond reputegladius has a reputation beyond reputegladius has a reputation beyond reputegladius has a reputation beyond repute
A Question about Second Intention Strategy

I received a PM from Grasshopper to ask Maestro Bernacchi about second intention strategy. I thought that both the question and the answer by our maestro could be of interest to others.


Question by Grasshopper to Maestro Bernacchi

I am a foil fencer who used to be on the Canadian national team (over 15 years ago!) and am now living and competing in Japan. I never made it to the Olympics, but I did compete in Universiade in 1995. (I drew Sanzo and Chefchenko in my first round!)

I wanted to ask the Maestro about his thoughts on second-intention strategy for a tall right-handed foil fencer. That is one part of my fencing that needs to be developed. Specifically, what kinds of remises, oppositions, counter-parries, tactics does he advocate for second-intention situations (ie. after an attack that is short or that is parried)?

The reason I specifically wanted to ask the Italian Maestro this question is because I see that the Italian men's foilists are particularly good at second-intention fencing. Cassara, Vanni, Sanzo, and before that Cerioni, etc, etc.

Are there drills or ways to improve in this area?


Maestro Bernacchi replies:

First of all it's very difficult to answer these questions without having ever seen the questioner's fencing style nor knowing his technique and athleticism.

Second, the concept of second intention is a very general one: fencing is all second intention. It is built on feigning to avoid parries, or on attack actions made intentionally "short" to lure the opponent to parry and therefore to be able to counterparry the usual riposte of the opponent.

Let's put this in hopefully clearer terms:

If I throw the hit with "first intention" I do so with the idea to touch my opponent immediately because I am quicker than he is, I already understand the "holes" in his defense, etc.

If however I throw the hit with "second intention" I do so not to touch him immediately. I let him parry me comfortably and without hesitation on his part, since I already know that he always ripostes the same way to the same target. In turn I parry his riposte and here we have the case of a second intention, i.e., a first action executed without the intention to touch him but instead to have him parry and with a second intention executed after the first one by taking advantage of the outcome of the first one. This is the specific meaning given to the term second intention in the Italian fencing treatises.

However, the term second intention has also a wider meaning and today, with the new blocking times, a tall fencer can play very effectively on the remises, especially in the high lines of tierce and quarte.

In the case of a right-handed fencer against a right-handed fencer we can think of one of the many possible examples:

Fencer A launches an attack to the inside line of fencer B, from a distance, and not too quickly, so that fencer B will parry quarte / quinte and fencer A remises on the same line, under the parry quarte / quinte of fencer B, with a strong fist opposition with the bell guard on the line of quarte, or quinte, simply strengthening the line without opposition.

To be effective in this type of remise one must slow down the initial rhythm of the attack, to give confidence to the opponent in his parry, and then accelerate in the execution of the remise, possibly by extending the lunge with a further step forwards of the forward foot.

The classic second intention, i.e., the counterparry and riposte, is less practical today than the remise, in particular for a tall fencer. At close distance, the tall fencer may be in difficulty against a much shorter opponent. The shorter fencer in effect can diminish/reduce the visible surface of the target by moving closer with his body and he can make impossible for the taller fencer to riposte and reach the target first with his counterattack, also because today you cannot any longer flick the back easily.

All rhythm changes in the legs movements can fall under the definition of second intention.

Examples:

1. Throw a short attack and then start with a soft fleche, by first pulling the back foot to the on guard position and then crossing the opponent's blade in opposition. By playing on the typical reaching ability of the tall fencer, with the new timings it is now often possible that the continuation of the attack can land before the opponent's riposte.

2. All attacks on the blade, i.e., taking of the blade on the opponent's riposte, are effective, like for instance a short attack followed by a beat and thrust on the opponent's riposte. One must try, both in a lesson and in a bout, the possible options that are most suited to the hand of the fencer and to his preferences.

In any case it is essential that for any second intention action, the fencer must handle correctly the measure (distance). It is always better for a tall fencer to keep a longer distance, lest there is the risk of his reach not being effective any longer.

Furthermore, if we include in second intentions also the countertimes, then the possible combinations of actions multiply. One, among the many, which is certainly suitable to a tall fencer is the so called "parry-tempo and riposte," i.e., invite the opponent to suspend the attack by going out of measure with two/three back steps, and then to throw a stop-hit on the high lines, followed by an adequate safety parry if the opponent finishes his attack; or even better from a measure defense, i.e., to go back with one or more steps to void the opponent's hit. However, today generally a tall fencer can train better his second intention by getting used to fence a bit like an epeeist, i.e., holding the line and crossing the opponent's blade in opposition.

I would recommend also to read the article about the new blocking times. Athletically speaking though, without knowing a particular fencer, it is always a good practice to train the control of the lunge and return to the on guard position; smooth and soft lunges are essential for a good second intention, as is the ability to come back to the on guard position in a sufficiently elastic way.


gladius is online now  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Tweet This!Share on FacebookReddit!
And now for this message...
Go Green members don't see these ads.


Old 03-27-2006, 11:14 PM   #2
Senior Member
 
Grasshopper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Japan
Posts: 1,274
Grasshopper has a reputation beyond reputeGrasshopper has a reputation beyond reputeGrasshopper has a reputation beyond reputeGrasshopper has a reputation beyond reputeGrasshopper has a reputation beyond reputeGrasshopper has a reputation beyond reputeGrasshopper has a reputation beyond reputeGrasshopper has a reputation beyond reputeGrasshopper has a reputation beyond reputeGrasshopper has a reputation beyond reputeGrasshopper has a reputation beyond repute
Thank you very much for the excellent answer. In particular, I really liked the ideas about:

1) making a slow attack into opponent's parry, then a fast remise with short extension of the lunge. I had not thought to change the tempo like this to set up the remise but it probably would work...will test.

2) the difficulty for a tall foilist to make counter-ripostes on the new timings. Yes, exactly like the Maestro describes, the relative distance and new timings are all wrong for this - remise should work must better.

3) fencing foil more like an epee fencer. Also interesting and will test.

4) setting up stop-hits and also out-distancing opponent's attack. Yes, this is something I already feel confident about.

Again, thank you Gladius and Maestro for all your help.
__________________
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD WON'T YOU BUY MY TACTICAL WHEEL!!!????
Grasshopper is offline  
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Tweet This!Share on FacebookReddit!
Closed Thread

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
RoW strategy drippingwet Fencing Discussion 5 01-20-2005 05:29 PM
second intention attack/counter-time drippingwet Fencing Discussion 20 01-09-2005 09:45 PM
Basic strategy drippingwet Fencing Discussion 13 12-10-2004 02:00 AM
Strategy against flicks. drizzt_do_urden Fencing Discussion 17 04-21-2003 10:54 AM
Strategy and tactics in fencing; (a laymans question) Z-axis Fencing Discussion 9 10-25-2002 06:57 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:49 PM.


(c) 1995 - 2009 Fencing Net; Fencing.Net, fdn, Fencing101, Epee101, Foil101, Sabre101 are all trademarks of Fencing.Net, LLC.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2009, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd. - Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.2.0 RC5 -    
Follow fencing.net on Facebook