Sabre Khan - Philadelphia - May 21, 2006

[qatet]

SABRE FENCERS:
An event not to be missed!
NEW to the Philadelphia Division calendar:
Foil fencers have the FAP GALA, Epee fencers have the BCAF FLYNN Memorial.
NOW the dark side has its own CASH PRIZE** EVENT........

Entry forms and further information can be found at http://mysite.verizon.net/vze2nzjy/SabreKhanEntry.pdf

FIRST PLACE: $100
top male: $100
top woman: $100
2nd: $75 3: $50, 4: $25

May 21, 2006: FAP close of check in @ 10 am

pre registration is $50
@ the door is $60

Finals @ 6:30 PM $10 for spectators $5 for students, free for competitors
This will be a USFA sanctioned event, USFA membership required. This will be a mixed open, no classification restrictions.

** naturally given in compliance with USFA and NCAA rules

ASK FRED links:
more info:
http://askfred.net/Events/moreInfo.p...nament_id=1646

pre reg:
http://askfred.net/Events/Prereg/pre...nament_id=1646

who's coming:
http://askfred.net/Events/whoIsComin...nament_id=1646

[qatet]

Awww, c'mon. You're not all THAT scared of Brad and Delia, are you? Somebody try to take their prize money!

In other words, remember to register for Sabre Khan! $10 discount if you preregister through askFRED.

[RITFencing]

I don't think it's so much that people are scared, but the risk/return ratio is pretty high. The costs are roughly in line with DitD, which gives away much more.

[seak]

Originally Posted by qatet

Awww, c'mon. You're not all THAT scared of Brad and Delia, are you? Somebody try to take their prize money!

Heck yes I am, and I don't even fence sabre (trying to learn though)

[prototoast]

Originally Posted by qatet

Awww, c'mon. You're not all THAT scared of Brad and Delia, are you? Somebody try to take their prize money!

In other words, remember to register for Sabre Khan! $10 discount if you preregister through askFRED.

I'm not scared, but there isn't a lot of incentive. Based on who is on the list so far, I'd probably go until I (most likely) lost to Brad. Best possible seeding with that expected DE result would be 2nd and $75--$25 net profit (best case scenario would be $50). Doesn't even cover gas. And right now the field is pretty weak, so it wouldn't be a lot of good tournament experience.

Oh yeah, and that would be if I could accept the money (which I couldn't--thanks a lot, NCAA), so basically it's high entry fees for a weak tournament. I'll pass.

[RITFencing]

In the future, you may want to offer a percentage of the profits instead of a set amount. You have about 20 people signed up, so if the winner were to take, say, 30%, second place 20 and third place 10, there is much more incentive for people to show, and your club still makes a healthy amount.

Bear in mind that these are percentages of the profit, not the revenue.

[Peach]

Profits? Delusional thinking, m'dear. The first time something like this is put on, it's smart to anticipate losing money.

[prototoast]

Originally Posted by Peach

Profits? Delusional thinking, m'dear. The first time something like this is put on, it's smart to anticipate losing money.

Yeah, and this way you get the winner to take on 30% of your losses.

[Peach]

Originally Posted by prototoast

Yeah, and this way you get the winner to take on 30% of your losses.

Yup, it's preferable to have the winnings be part of the costs for the organizers. We're hoping it will be a good tournament, though--there are plenty of good sabre fencers within an easy drive, and a number of solid referees, and it should be a good event.

[qatet]

Hee. The quickest way to get sabre fencers to respond is to imply that they're chickens. Gotta remember that for the future.

My job here is simply to make sure that folks remember the tournament is happening. I'm delighted that I managed to do so in a way that stirs up controversy and has everybody else keeping the topic alive for me. Many thanks.

The goal is to grow this tournament. Notice that the Philadephia Division is finally (many would say belatedly) filling out the trio of events that the Foil Gala and the Flynn Memorial (epee tournament) implies - one cash event for each weapon. This is our first year with this one, and it does take some time to get the right formula for any annual tournament.

The complaints thus far seem to be twofold - 1) Rearrange the money 2) There aren't enough good fencers on the list. In regards to 1, frankly, most fencers never have a shot at the cash for any cash tournament - we fence them to get to fence the people who has a shot. And no, we don't plan on making a profit - far from it. For a further discussion of this matter, perhaps refer to the current DitD thread. It's hard to consistently run a cash tournament, let alone get one started.

As for 2, well then, sign on up. Come fence the Khan. Don't yet have a rating? Right now, this is guaranteed to create few. Have one already? Maybe this is your chance to improve it before Nationals. Neither of those apply? Well, you might have a chance to win some money, or at least some bragging rights. Can't come and just want to complain? Bah. Stay home - we don't want you! ;P

[Peach]

Originally Posted by qatet

Hee. The quickest way to get sabre fencers to respond is to imply that they're chickens. Gotta remember that for the future.

Actually, the quickest way to get us to respond is to make a statement about us that reveals misconceptions--we're always glad of an opportunity to educate others.

[bigdawg2121]

Proto the flier says that awards will be given in accordance with NCAA regs. which is actually possible, and Brad is plenty beatable so why not fence anyway?

[oiuyt]

Originally Posted by bigdawg2121

Proto the flier says that awards will be given in accordance with NCAA regs. which is actually possible, and Brad is plenty beatable so why not fence anyway?

And NCAA regs mean that Proto wouldn't get the money, even to cover the expenses incurred in participating in the tournament (before enrolling in college you can receive prizes up to the actual incurred costs directly for that event (note: you can't total expenses and total revenue and balance them, it's a direct costs for tournament A, prize for tournament A thing)). Brown Fencing could receive Proto's prize money but HE couldn't. Additional note: double-check all NCAA eligibility information with full-time experts. While I believe the information I've given above is correct I would not be willing to risk college eligibility (other people's, I have none left) on it.

The post (NCAA/USFA compliance is not actually mentioned on the flier) also says that the prizes will be given in compliance with USFA rules. Given that the USFA doesn't have any restrictions on prize money currently, that's not particularly difficult. :)

And yes, I am plenty beatable. Lost a half dozen times at the NAC last week alone. :) More to the point, I'm also certainly beatable by at least several of the people registered to attend the tournament.

Currently the event seems an awful lot like a FAP club tournament with just a couple of extra people (17 FAP members, 1 each from 3 other clubs). Should still be fun.

-B

[bigdawg2121]

FRED info says the following: $400 Worth of Prizes for Top Finishers!* If many people show up, the prizes will be larger! Pre-Reg. $50 Reg. @ door: $60 Finals @ 6:30 PM *Awards will be granted in compliance with USFA & NCAA Rules.


Not to mention I thought that there was an NCAA rule that allowed one to recieve equipment as a prize, so $400 worth of saber equipment assuming everyone winning was a collegiate fencer...that's like a bunch of blades or a Lexan mask for people to split :-P. I might be wrong though....

As for the tournament, once I figure out what I'm doing for the summer I may attempt to convince some of the folks in our immediate area that it might be a good trip to take.

[oiuyt]

Originally Posted by bigdawg2121

As for the tournament, once I figure out what I'm doing for the summer I may attempt to convince some of the folks in our immediate area that it might be a good trip to take.

Please do. The more the merrier, and it would be good to have people NOT from the club.

-B

[Peach]

Seconding Brad. Although FAP has developed quite a large cadre of sabre fencers in the last couple of years, it would be GREAT to be able to vary the bouts a little bit!

[oiuyt]

Originally Posted by bigdawg2121

and Brad is plenty beatable so why not fence anyway?

Proven yet again today where I took 10th/36...

-B

[KD5MDK]

A little too far for me, that's all.