Safety

[Inquartata]

"A man was arrested at the airport today after travellers said he kept pestering them about whether they were wearing something called a 'plastron'. Responding police officers reported that he demanded to see theirs, too."

[oiuyt]

But the problem is that AJ could have held libel if there was a incident for not enforce the safety issues. To many lawyers would love to start with her and work their way up to the USFA

Or more likely start with both as named defendants in the same suit. The target, of course, being neither of them, but rather the settlement money from the insurance company that carries the USFA's liability risk. Note that this is just as true whether the fencer was wearing a plastron or not (although there's (slightly) more likely to be a catastophic injury to start the process without the plastron).

-B

[oiuyt]

This past Saturday, I was at a local Open competition. I agreed to help out and referee, in the process I found out that about eight or nine fencers were competing without underarm protectors. I made the mistake of letting the pools finish instead of halting the tournament then and there. I informed the LOC that if the fencers didn't have the proper equipment, I had the authority to close down the event. They said, "Ok." Then they proceeded to ignore what I said, and were going to fence the D.E's anyways. I told them the D.E's would not go out until everyone had an underarm protector on. The tournament was delayed twenty minutes. I was ready to delay it for three hours.
Everyone got underarm protectors and the tournament proceeded. I just wanted to let you all know about this. Please make sure in your local tournaments that everyone is wearing the proper equipment.

Obviously the same occurance.

While I certainly agree that underarm protectors are a required piece of safety equipment and never bout in competition or practice without mine, I do have to question something about your methods here.

"I informed the LOC that if the fencers didn't have the proper equipment, I had the authority to close down the event."

Excuse me?!!!!?!!! I'd love to know where THAT authority derives from. I don't recall being vested in any such rights when I earned my 4. Nor does having a 4 make one a "direct representative of the FOC and the USFA" as mentioned in the thread-starting post.

Clearly the right thing to do was to make sure that the LOC required that people wear all of the required safety equipment. This might have even been the easiest way of accomplishing that task. That said, claiming the right to shut down tournaments.... wooooo.

-B

[JARS]

Physical Chess, which is what most beginners buy from as they are relativly cheap have their starter sets come with cotten underarm protectors as an upgrade to thier beginner sets. The web page has it automatically selected as well. I'm not sure why I didn't get one when I bought my practice foil package but I will definatly get one when I get my electric kit.
http://www.physicalchess.com/search_...earch&iLevel=1

[RITFencing]

You should really avoid the whole physical chess/blade fencing/fencesmart/russian mafia (who was it who originally put it like this?) conglomoration. They are all the same company and they all have lackluster products and service. There are a number of threads on here regarding vendors; a search on them might be very profitable.

[TrainingDummy]

Apparently we are waiting on an incident like the one in Russia last year before this gets onto the radar at garden-variety meets....

What was that?

[mrbiggs]

What was that?

Someone died when a blade pierced their jacket a little while ago in Eastern Europe somewhere, I think that's what he was referring to. IIRC, he was not wearing an underarm protector.

Whether or not that's the case, it's certainly another example of the necessity of underarm protectors.

Anyway, I've always seen them checked at tournaments. It may be that I'm lucky, but all the referees I've seen--and I mean all, good and bad--have been impeccible about safety.

[Josephine25]

Obviously the same occurance.

While I certainly agree that underarm protectors are a required piece of safety equipment and never bout in competition or practice without mine, I do have to question something about your methods here.

"I informed the LOC that if the fencers didn't have the proper equipment, I had the authority to close down the event."

Excuse me?!!!!?!!! I'd love to know where THAT authority derives from. I don't recall being vested in any such rights when I earned my 4. Nor does having a 4 make one a "direct representative of the FOC and the USFA" as mentioned in the thread-starting post.

Clearly the right thing to do was to make sure that the LOC required that people wear all of the required safety equipment. This might have even been the easiest way of accomplishing that task. That said, claiming the right to shut down tournaments.... wooooo.

-B

I got directly from the head of the FOC, Bill Oliver. He said that as I was the highest ranked referee there and as a four, I was a representive of the FOC. I wouldn't have been able to stop them from fencing, but it would no longer have been a USFA sanctioned tournament. Any ratings earned would not have been recognized by the USFA. I was told that I could shut down the tournament. By the way, why do you think the tournament was delayed twenty minutes? That's how long it took to get the underarm protectors for the fencers who didn't have them. They required USFA membership to fence in the tournament, therefore implying that they would enforce the rules and require the fencers to follow the rules. The person in charge of the tournament was also fencing and he wasn't wearing a plastron.
A.J.

[yeoldearmourer]

The whole point here it is a major safety issues. The way sabre accident are increase due to the stiffer blades it a matter of time before someone is killed. Like I says a very experience epee fencer in practice thought His FIE jacket was enough to protect him no plaston broken blade lung was piece He was lucky and it took awhile to recovery. So it is required by the rules let do it safety. Fencing is one of the safest sport in the US lets keep it that way. Oh by the way same event the local TV was there a friend of my ask why they were fencing without masks on when he saw it on the news. That is another major no no. What type of message was being sent. What really bother me was the fact that the have very expenice fencers that do fence at NAC and Nationals and do have a least a 5 rated as a referee they should have know better.

[Allen Evans]

Adelia makes a good point that by requiring USFA membership, there was an implication of holding a USFA sanctioned event, which requires all the safety rules to be followed. However, a referee cannot "shut down a tournament". If the organizers fail to enforce the safety rules, the referee can withdraw the USFA sanction from the event, and RECOMMEND that the event be stopped. If organizers fail to heed this advice and fencing continues, the smart referee should LEAVE THE ROOM. This is no longer a "fencing tournament" but a private party that they have no juristiction at. The referee can not stop anyone from fencing after she leaves - any more than my referee rating gives me the responsiblity to enforce my local helmet laws.

With all that said, I have to say that in all the time I've been fencing, I don't remember an event - even in my little home town up north - where my plastron wasn't checked or at least asked about. Local tournament? I would say that where ever Ms. Loomis is, she has her work cut out for her in teaching people the rules if they're behind Fairbanks, Alaska!

[yeoldearmourer]

By withdrawn USFA Sanction from she is basically shuting down the tournament. She got their attention about safety. but here again she also went out to her car and got her and her brother personal Plastons and loan them out to help the event continue. One of the club member went to his house and got 3 more delay was 20 mins. I have been know to bend some on technical rules to allow the event to continue but I have never comprise on safety issues at all.

I realize I was the one that told her that by withdrawn USFA sanction she was basically was shutting down the event It was me for using the wrong words at time.

[HDG]

Following up on my own suggestion, I did some research as to which suppliers include plastrons in their starter kits; I missed a few, but this gives you an idea

Absolute: No
American: No
Blade: No
Blue Gauntlet: No
Duellist: No
ELI: N/A
Fence Smart: No
Fencing.Net: N/A
Fencing Post: No
LP: Yes
PBT: N/A
Physical Chess: Option at added cost
SwordMasters: N/A
Triplette: No
Zivkovic: N/A

[KD5MDK]

Well, that's mildly disappointing.

[Purple Fencer]

Don't worry...H.O.M. will when I'm able to offer a starting kit...

[HDG]

Don't worry...H.O.M. will when I'm able to offer a starting kit...

More proof that you are more thoughtful and sensible than just about any of the big companies. Keep it up.

[yeoldearmourer]

I try with Absolute Fencing and several others but the answer I get is the Coachs have Budgets that would not inculed the extra priceing but I am stilled working on them has I believe that saftey so come first. And that newer fencers may not what to pay for them. My thinking is that they would become know for put saftey first. I still working on it.

[Purple Fencer]

More proof that you are more thoughtful and sensible than just about any of the big companies. Keep it up.

Now if I just had the money to make the parts and live up to my own hype!!!

*I'm workin' on it...I'm workin on it!*

Besides....in addition to being a vendor, I;m an armorer, and our first consideration is safety...why not put that into my biz??