Wy epee sucks

[darius]

I admire the guy who fights through injury as much as the next sport fanatic. I'm a big fan of Homeric heroes and such.

However, TB should have notified George K. and the team trainers before leaving for Seoul to have assess whether he could or could not fence -- it's not like he did it on his way to the airport. What he did was just plain inconsiderate. If he had at least served notice, they could have made arrangements for an alternate while they were still in the States and had several days before the comp.

As for having an alternate *all the time*, it's not always possible. Remember the monetary constraints - it takes a lot of $40 memberships to send somebody to Korea, non?

And rather than give up all hope at us qualifying an epee team for the Olympics, they entered Michael Marx (mad props...) last minute. Hmmm. Lousy treatment, indeed.

darius

[damianip]

The gist of my point about the "unusual" nature of the USFA relationship with its fencers is that:

I'm shocked that at the lack of communication and supervision (both medical and athletic) of a national team athlete in period leading up to a WCh. How is it that T is playing b-ball on a suspect knee just before Seoul? How is it that no one at the federation knew about it, and how is it that they were unaware of his previous injury?

I don't blame T for going. I would probably try the same if I were in his shoes. But how is it possible that he was allowed to go and that, given his suspect condition, the fourth épéeist was not brought along as back up?

If the USFA wants results, then they should run the federation a bit more professionally. Shouldn't they conduct physicals just prior to the event?

European soccer teams subject their players to fitness tests before each game: You don't pass, you don't play. It might save a lot of animosity and embarrassment if the USFA did something similar.

By the same token, you would think that the federation would have an interest in monitoring and maintaining the health of their team members.

Just my impressions...

Paolo

[darius]

Fencing is an individualistic sport. Not only does the USFA not have the resources to keep its athletes under lock and key the last week before a World Champs, but why would they need to? Hopefully the athletes have their own best interests in mind, which is kicking butt, and wouldn't want to do anything to jeopardize that.

Perhaps he did not know that the ACL tear was chronic. Perhaps he thought that he could fence through it. Fine. But the fact remains that he had several days to notify the team before leaving and did not; waiting until they were in Korea and it was too late.

I don't know Tamir; he may be a great guy. He's a med student at Mt. Sinai, so I assume he's a pretty bright cookie. But that just smacks of being irresponsible.

The punishment seems plenty fair too; no banning from comps or anything, just pay back the money the USFA wasted on Tamir's sightseeing trip to Korea.

darius

[This message has been edited by darius (edited 10-20-2000).]

[Rick]

Hmmm... what can I say about Epee v. Sabre. Nothing much, really. I just wanted to keep this thread alive.
I just love it when a loud-mouth-hotshot-narrow-minded-know-it-all kid gets put in the proper place with a foot the size of king-kong in the pie-hole.
As for me, I fence foil and epee competitively. Not really that good or smart when it comes to the sport of fencing. But I do know that all three weapons are different -- can't compare them in any logical manner. But I'll say this, there's a reason why I don't fence sabre... I'll keep it too myself (here's a clue: it was already brought up earlier in the thread -- more than once).

Kudos to everyone... that kid better do some homework before saying something that stupid again.

[epeetaph]

Ignorance is never a good excuse for anything. "I think it's stupid." Come on now, that isn't good reasoning! You can do much better than that. Just because you don't like it...oh, well. You know you don't hold precedence on this issue. Every weapon is different, for different people to fight in different ways. End of story!

------------------
"Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est."
Latin: "A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand."
-Seneca, "Letters to Lucilius"

[saberkid]

yeah i agree with perety much everyone... i know saber dude he's go's to my club... well my coach read what he said and got all mad at him for being so ignrant and he was suposed to post a reply saying he was sorrey for what he said but i guess he didnt...

i'll talk to him

Chris

[weezelbit]

Okay, Okay,
Here's an old joke, you've probably all heard it before:

You go into a fencing club and walk up to a group of foil fencers. They are all talking about the latest move someone saw in Europe and how to get that flick just perfect.

You go up to a group of epee fencers and they are all talking about how they can trick their tip springs to the very edge of what's allowable or arguing over which grip is best for that oh-so-precise touch.

You walk up to a group of sabre fencers and they are all talking about themselves.

[ladybug]

So wheres the punchline??

[saberkid]

hmmm ok.. saber fencers are more in touch with life its not about spending 5 hours on your spring to get it JUST right... heh well i dun care why didnt you just post that on the jokes strand?

[arcon]

[ 10-19-2001: Message edited by: arcon ]

[arcon]

[ 10-19-2001: Message edited by: arcon ]

[weezelbit]

Sabrekid,
Because there's nothing funny on that strand?

Arcon,
Hey, all us epeeist know its not just point and shoot - you gotta point in the right direction. Jeez.

(I would smack my forhead now with an open palm, but that seems like such a sabre thing to do. Anyway, my point control has been a little off, recently.)

[ReticMaster]

EPEE Rules!!!!!!!!!!!!
Me I don't like sabre. The sabrests are crazy people who wip each ather with sabres. My fenceng teacher is going to make me do sabre for the next few mounths. AH!!!!! I am not not going to like it to much. But that is life and sometimes I have to do things I don't like.

[saberbaby03]

Hey Jordan(saberdude) You know what?? Youre making all us other saber fencers look bad. From reading your topic, one could conclude that all saber fencers are ugly, dumb, and about as ignorant as a cow. (a dead cow) Please, keep your stupid thoughts to yourself.
Because some of us actually have intelligence and skill.


annika

[arcon]

[ 10-19-2001: Message edited by: arcon ]

[Stryder]

I have tried to make this point before, but here goes.

Epee is not substantially more realistic that foil or sabre.

There are three weapons because if you want to learn real swordfighting from a game, you need to train in all three weapons.

Games have rules and rules have no place in combat. Epeeist are unrealistic because they cheat be poking at the hand at the expense of defending their chests. Sabrists focus on movement which is good, but they neglect defense nine out of ten times because right of way saves them. Foilists have better bladework than epeeists and sabrist combined, but the rules that remind them to parry, make them forget to score.

Learn footwork and tactics from sabre.
Learn point control and counter attack from epee.
Learn bladework and defense from foil.
Then you can claim to be good with a sword.

However, if you're sane, and want to learn a sport that smells somewhat like swordfighting but where no one dies, pick one. There are three.

[damianip]

Épée is not training for or recreation of a swordfight but, rather, a simulation of a "civilized" first blood duel.

Fencing is training for a swordfight the way boxing would be training for hand-to-hand combat. It can help in some ways but hurt you in others.

Fencing is a sport. Swordfighting is a life or death situation.


Paolo

[sabrechick]

Jordan,

First of all, you need to get unhooked from phonics, because it isn't doing you much good. Second of all, you are a big idiot, and maybe less hits on the head would do you some good. Maybe you'd stop saying stupid coments like the one you made to Leonon.

[sabrechick]

This is what I meant in my post, he can't spell. Hez hookt of foniks!
Lauren

[Mergs]

At least in foil when your weapon malfunctions you know immediately. You don't have to loose two touches to figure out something ain't kosher! Knocked myself out of the top 16 this WE for that reason! And the fact that I couldn't hit a bull in the *** with a bass fiddle at that point!