Fleche or no fleche

[jc flick]

What are your feelings on the fleche in sabre. Yes or no, why and why not.

[scarlet_woman156k]

I am not a sabre fencer, but I could swear it's illegal to fleche.


scarlet.

[HilandDoug]

Uh-oh....I see a storm commin'! Head for the shelter!

This topic was hashed over a few months ago, and things got steamy! There are those who wish it would return, and those who bless it's absence. Be careful what you ask for, because you just might get it! (Now excuse me while I go duck for cover!)

[tsalyards]

Remember when sabre was the definition of fleche? I actually liked watching sabre back then, now I find the weapon to be too much like foil. I say "yes."

-Tad

[latenight]

At least you can fleche in foil

[Rick]

... and Epee

[Cutter]

<--------saber fencer.

From my perspective, are you nuts? Saber is now a sport rather than two testosteroned males running at each other and trying to bash each other in the head (more like rams at mating time than anything worth watching or doing.)

As for it now looking like foil? No disrespect but who have you been watching fence saber. It is nothing like foil. Saber is still very fast and very athletic but it is still cutting and slashing and not that pokey pokey stuff done with foil. Target is different, movement is different, actions are different. Ask any foil fencer who has "tried" saber and you will find that the only real comparison is that they both use right-of-way.



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Cutter
Reach out and "touch" someone.

[Tyrantraxus]

Personally i feel preaty satisifed by the added strenth and stiffness of the new s2000 blade and i think that the new rules have improved the sabre game.

[veeco]

Sabre has evolved a lot since "crossing your feet while going forward" has been made illegal. For the better, I believe. Note that the fleche in itself was not made illegal, but rather any forward motion involving crossing your feet. Which means that the "passe avant" is not allowed as well. That's important because the "passe avant" allowed you to break the distance going forward more quickly than a simple step forward.

Now the emphasis is on distance and clean footwork.
One thing that really pissed me off was the whole "priority" thing. How's one supposed to understand that? It also means that you have to watch the bout from the beginning.

At least now when I show up in the middle of a saber bout I can catch right away what's going on.

Sabre is still fast. Removing the fleche did not kill the game. Just look at guys like Ivan Lee. He's able to touch his opponent on the head from his en garde line, without doing a fleche. The forward jump has replaced the fleche, and because it demands more power in the legs, it is harder to execute and also it is less explosive. There is then actually a window of opportunity for a parry-riposte, and that's what makes saber exciting!

[HilandDoug]

Rehashing what I said earlier in the year on another post, I feel that the problem back then was poor coaching. It was up to the coaches to tell their fencers, "Don't do that." Now, since they can't, the emphasis has been put where it should have been all along- on better footwork and blade work. I was resistant at first, but there's no doubt that it has improved the sport.

[Rapier9mm]

i like the jump lunge - i use it alot, and when fencing foil i use a fleche, not the jump lunge...my thoughts.

[introspective]

put it back. as soon as i heard they took it out i knew something was wrong.

[CHEEKY FOIL GUY]

TO DO A GOOD FLECHE IN SABRE IS VERY DIFFICULT. I QUITE LIKE THE RULE AS IT STANS AT THE MIN. IT FORCES U TO FENCE AND USE PROPER FOOTWORK. I FENCE SABRE ON OCCASION AND ENJOY IT MORE NOW AFTER THE NEW RULING ON CROSSING OF FEET.

[DarkTransient]

get rid of the wires first.

[FencerInUS]

how bout turning the caps lock off there buckeroo

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F.I.US.
Parry, THEN riposte
--)--------

[mangofever]

yes, put it back introspective you are absolutely correct! sabre has been very boring to watch without the fleche, there's no drama left.

[thebigriddle]

Yeah I remember the good old days. I guess you could have your own tournament with whatever rules you want. I still like to fence by the old rules once in a while.

[Stryder]

A good point bigriddle.
What do the veterans think of changing the vet rules to allow the fleche?

(As a non-veteran, I think the fleche made actual fencing actions few and far between. As for coaches being responsible for telling their students not to fleche, why would they? To not use the fleche in sabre is like not using the flick in foil. If you want to look good to your 90 year old coach while losing, go ahead.)

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www.geocities.com/strydermike

[Peach]

There are quite a number of "veterans" who started fencing after the fleche was eliminated. I for one would not be happy to see it return - it was boring to watch before I started fencing and I think sabre has gained in popularity since it was eliminated.

[TheScribe]

I know I'm going to get mangled for saying this, but I dont see the skill in fencing if the fleche is allowed (for sabre). Rulings as such have expanded the sport.

- The Scribe

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....no..no...thats not legal- is it?


[This message has been edited by TheScribe (edited 04-23-2001).]