03-15-2006, 11:50 AM
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#1 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: UNC
Posts: 169
| why the navy is weird.
Why does the navy rank for Lt. and Capt. switched (talking about the double bars)? A history lesson, please? 
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03-15-2006, 11:55 AM
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#2 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Jyväskylä
Posts: 3,876
| It's not gay, if you're under way! 
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03-15-2006, 12:38 PM
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#3 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,035
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by Mr Epee It's not gay, if you're under way! | Too funny. | |
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03-15-2006, 12:44 PM
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#4 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Carstairs, AB, Canada
Posts: 3,412
| Captain referred to the individual who commanded (from a military perspective) a ship of the line, Commanders commanded ships not of the line, Masters commanded merchant vessels. On any ship, the guy in charge is styled "captain" and his word is Law, outranking everyone (including the monarch). Like the monarch, there is a very clear line of succession on board a ship and any officer in that line is called an officer "of the line". They were in charge (almost totally) of the entire ship's complement including any marines, gunners, sailors or passengers.
A lieutenant headed up a specific area of the ship and reported to the Captain as his deputy. This evolved from the "mate" terminology with "mates" being styled "Lieutenant" and from the French "lieu" (in place of) "tenant" (occupier of the office). So a "lieutenent" was the guy in charge when the captain wasn't around. Hence a Lieutenant Colonel was the guy in charge when the Colonel wasn't around. Sub-Lieutenant's were generally in charge of sub sections underneath the Lieutenent. Mid shipmen were young officers in training in charge of small groups of sailors on an ad hoc basis.
In the Army world, a lieutenant was in charge of a platoon of troops (~30 soldiers), a captain was in charge of a company of troops (~100 soldiers), a major in charge of a battalion (~300 soldiers) and the colonel in charge of the regiment (~1000 soldiers).
The official reason for the similiar terms is because the army took over a navy ship when it was to be used in combat. The guy in charge of the troops was a captain and he directed the master of the ship where to go and what to do. As naval warfare came into its own, the guy who commanded the fighting aspect of the ship needed to know how to sail it and the master and captain ranks were blended into the title "captain".
In the pre-Napoleonic era of warfare, troops were bought and paid for by the officer in charge of them (and hired by the state). A company of men was the smallest "package" of soldiers available and the person in charge was the captain of the company (in Army terms and from the Italian word for "head"). Before the "Age of Sail" the number of troops was roughly equal between the two and so the term was used to refer to the guy that "owned" the combat "company" that was offered up for sale. As time progressed, the power of a single ship grew to a point where it was roughly equivalent, militarily, to a regiment.
Interestingly, a regiment is commanded by a Colonel who was the guy who commanded a "column" of Roman soldiers. A column had roughly 1000 troops in it, being one sixth of a full-strength Roman legion (and Roman legions marching 6 abreast).
In Napoleonic times (I think) the ranks were standardised based on the number of troops commanded and combat equivalency with a navy Captain being equal to an army Colonel. A Major was equal to a Commander. An Army Captain was equal to a Naval Lieutenant.
Another bit of UFI, is that an army Captain on board a naval ship is given a "courtesy-bump" to Major. Which can get confusing if there is an actual Major on board.
Hope this helps.
James.
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03-15-2006, 08:48 PM
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#5 | | Guardian
Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: CA
Posts: 1,274
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Originally Posted by Mr Epee It's not gay, if you're under way! | You've got the gall to post this when you're profile pic looks like it does? 
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Quidquid latine dictum sit altum videtur
Six of one, half-a-dozen of the other
TANSTAAFL
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03-15-2006, 08:52 PM
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#6 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Cougar Country
Posts: 8,882
| Ah.... but you should see him with his hat on! 
Admit it... they both made you laugh....
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With special thanks to Mr. E...
“Patriotism is your conviction that this country is superior to all others because you were born in it.” - George Bernard Shaw | |
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03-15-2006, 09:39 PM
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#7 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Jyväskylä
Posts: 3,876
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Originally Posted by gojujay You've got the gall to post this when you're profile pic looks like it does? | Heh, the pic in my profile is Kulcsar Sr.
You know - this dude?
Kiemelkedő eredményei:
1963:
világbajnoki bronzérmes csapatban (Bronze medal - Team World Championships)
1964:
olimpiai bajnok csapatban (Olympic Champion - Team)
1967:
világbajnoki bronzérmes csapatban (Bronze medal - Team World Championships)
1968:
olimpiai bajnok egyéniben (Olympic Champion - Individual)
1968:
olimpiai bajnok csapatban (Olympic Champion - Team)
1969:
világbajnoki ezüstérmes csapatban (Silver Medal - World Champs - Team)
1970:
világbajnok csapatban (World Champion - Team)
1971:
világbajnok csapatban (World Champion - Team)
1972:
olimpiai bronzérmes (Bronze Medal - Olympics - Individual)
1972:
olimpiai bajnok csapatban (Olympic Champion - Team)
1973:
világbajnoki ezüstérmes csapatban (Silver Medal - World Champs - Team)
1974:
világbajnoki bronzérmes csapatban (Bronze Medal - Olympics - Individual)
1975:
világbajnoki bronzérmes csapatban (Bronze Medal - Olympics - Individual)
1976:
olimpiai bronzérmes (Bronze Medal - Olympics - Individual)
1978:
világbajnok csapatban (World Champion -Team)
In addition to those competitive accomplishments... he was also coached several Olympic Champions in Italy...
Make fun of the picture, if you need to.
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F.Net Rule #1: E. L. E. (everybody love everybody)
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03-17-2006, 12:55 PM
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#8 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: ---->
Posts: 2,124
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by Mr Epee Make fun of the picture, if you need to. |
Thank you, I will.
That is not the most flattering picture of the dude. The fey expression and pose make the guy look more than a little.... swishy, if you will.
But then again, my gay friends make fun of my extremely bad gaydar, so perhaps my impressions are mistaken. But that said, nyah nyah nyah.
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03-18-2006, 03:34 PM
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#9 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: UNC
Posts: 169
| The midshipman here would reply, " CHAIR FORCE!"
And the airman would retort, " Go row your boat, seaman."
I think.....
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I am not young enough to know everything. -Oscar Wilde-
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03-18-2006, 04:33 PM
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#10 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Savannah, Ga
Posts: 6,120
| Do we have any Middies? (haha derogatory terms for the win!)
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03-20-2006, 08:44 AM
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#11 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Ask.
Posts: 500
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by Mr Epee Heh, the pic in my profile is Kulcsar Sr.
You know - this dude?
<huge list of amazing accomplishments>
In addition to those competitive accomplishments... he was also coached several Olympic Champions in Italy...
Make fun of the picture, if you need to. | His son's also an excellent epeeist (although I think he's retired now?)
And I think I'm right in saying Kulczar Senior's now Sherraine Mackay's coach too.
Talented guy.
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"First, second, third, dead f***in' last." - Greg Glassman
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03-20-2006, 03:38 PM
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#12 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Jyväskylä
Posts: 3,876
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by rory His son's also an excellent epeeist (although I think he's retired now?)
And I think I'm right in saying Kulczar Senior's now Sherraine Mackay's coach too.
Talented guy. | FYI ... Kristian is his nephew... not his son.
Cheers.
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Quit touchin' me, ya freak
F.Net Rule #1: E. L. E. (everybody love everybody)
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03-20-2006, 09:29 PM
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#13 | | Guardian
Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: CA
Posts: 1,274
| Quote: |
Originally Posted by rory Talented guy. | ... but lousy taste in photographers
__________________
Quidquid latine dictum sit altum videtur
Six of one, half-a-dozen of the other
TANSTAAFL
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03-22-2006, 03:41 AM
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#14 | | Guardian
Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: CA
Posts: 1,274
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Originally Posted by geordie When you're Gyzo Kulcsár, it doesn't matter what kinda picture you got taken of you 35-40 years ago. He is truly incredible and still has better footwork than most people around! He definately gives Sherraine by far the most intense lessons day in and day out than she's had in your whole life.
This man deserves the utmost respect!
cheers,
Geordie www.sherrainemackay.com | Obviously he's deserving of respect. I wouldn't waste my time lampooning somebody who's not! 
__________________
Quidquid latine dictum sit altum videtur
Six of one, half-a-dozen of the other
TANSTAAFL
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