Weight Training for Fencing

[SBS]

I was thinking that I do need to be in better shape for my fencing. The thing I am told mainly is push-ups and sit-ups just to not be to bulky but I was wondering if there was specific weight training exercises or specific muscle groups I should look into building. Any suggestions?

[RoninX]

Leg presses and go to toe extension at the end of each press, as high a weight as you can stand (and still be able to do 3 sets of 10 reps) to help with explosive lunges and recovery. The first few years I fenced epee most sabre fencer had better point finesse than me but I still won alot thanks to my legs and footwork.

[Mr T]

Weight training will just make you bulky.

Its not sport specific, and you don't want to be a giant black man like me.

Keep the bandana on your head and make sure to stay in the classical mind set.

And use the search, fool.

[Morion]

If done correctly weights will NOT make you bulky, just stronger. Choose which muscle groups you feel you need the most work on. Do 3 sets of 10. The first group whould be easy, the second should require effort, and the third should be at a level that you can almost or just barely complete. At least that is what my trainer has told me and time seems to have proven him correct. I have developed some definition but not gotten large.

[Cerian]

Squat and deadlift. Bench and standing military press. Something for the forearm and the calf depending on what's available to work with. Core. Lots of stretching after workouts.

[DesertFencer]

I'd suggest reading "Power to the People" by Pavel Tsatsouline. His training is very popular in the police SWAT community because it develops strength and endurance without bulk. He points out that there are no 260 pound rock climbers because they're all dead!

He trained the former Soviet Setznaz before his career in the US and his program is great for people who want usable strength without the soreness and other problems associated with bulk. It's worth reading.

His books are available through Dragondoor publications.

[RebelFencer]

Ok so here's a question to debate: Squats or Leg Press?

[D+F+P=Hadouken!]

Use the search button, this has been discussed many a time.

The ultimate goal of any fencing weight training program should be to make you a better fencer. You need to identify your weaknesses, and adapt accordingly.

As a beginner trainee, you can do pretty much anything and gain strength. Work done in the 5-8 rep range will yield very quick strength gains with little mass (when you're a begginer, hypertrophy gains will occur as your level progresses).

Nothing works forever though. Eventually this work will cause size gains, so you'll want to taper your workouts down to a lower rep/higher weight range,
3-5 repetitions for example, because that is a safe range for developing power without mass.

Your body increases strength in two ways mainly.

Hypertrophy
The increasing of size in muscles. Neural strength gains and hypertrophy strength gains will occur in the 6-8 rep range. In the 9-12 range, hypertrophy and endurance gains occcur. 13+ reps will mainly yield endurance benefits.

Increased Muscular coordination
This is the ability to enact as many motor units as possible when performing an action. A motor unit is a single mind/muscle connection. Training in the 1-5repetition range is the most effective way to increase the percentage of motor units recruited. I suggest staying in the 3-5 repetition range, as it is safer than using lower reps. This will result in very little muscle growth, but increased strength.

There is also explosive strength. This is the bodies ability to QUICKLY enact the muscle system into an act. It can be trained in numerous ways, but I'm only going to discuss two here.

Olympic Lifts
Practicing olympic lifts like the clean and jerk, power clean and hang clean for example can help you to become a more explosive athlete. Theres also a reason they're called olympic lifts: because alot of olympians do them. These lifts can definitely be tough on the body, so its reccomended that you have a very solid strength base before attempting them. Also, there is a very prominent element of technique involved, so its important that you have a qualified olympic lift trainer teach the lifts to you.

Plyometrics
Plyometrics, or shock training as it was originally called, originated in the soviet union. The russians used it to dominate the rest of the worlds in sports, but the secret got out, and now it is a commonly used training method in most sports. A plyometric movement involves the muscle being contracted eccentrically, then immediately concentrically. Examples of plyometrics are bounding movements and depth jumps. The gains with plyometric movements are always neurological, and you should never do plyo training to failure. In fact, they reccomend that you keep your total number of jumps to under 120 per training session.

Plyometric training is extremely difficult on the body, and should never be attempted by the novice athlete. It is important that an adequate strength base be achieved before attempting any plyometric training. It is also important to graduate to different intensity exercises. Like starting with bounding movements, then certain jumps, then depth jumps. Plyometrics are a training tool that can greatly increase an athletes speed, but it can also injure one if they are not careful. Never attempt plyometrics without the supervision of a qualified trainer.


Its important to balance your Static strength (weight training) with Spring strength (plyometrics). You need to consider the specific demands of your sport, also. An athlete that focuses on the 40 yard dash has very little to gain doing isometric (no movement) exercises, and a body builder has to little to gain from doing plyo. Fencing lies right about in the middle, in that it nevers requires a drawn out speed attempt like the 40, but it has its moments where you need to apply 100% of your power instantaneously. Its right between the 10 yard dash and olympic lifting. Therefore, for optimum fencing speed, focus a little more on olympic lifts than plyometrics.

Don't do any of this **** without talking to a qualified professional. Also, keep in mind that I'm only 16, so I don't really know what I'm talking about.

[D+F+P=Hadouken!]

Originally Posted by RebelFencer

Ok so here's a question to debate: Squats or Leg Press?

Squats, IMHO. Squats develop the lower back, and they also develop BALANCE. Balancing all the weight on your shoulders can be difficult, and you dont have to worry about that on the leg press. The most difficult exercises yield the best results.

[Cerian]

Squats. Works more muscles, helps core strength, develops balance.

[smurfette]

Originally Posted by SBS

I The thing I am told mainly is push-ups and sit-ups just to not be to bulky

The notion that weight training makes you huge is crap. If you ever watch competitive weight-lifting events, you would be surprised how non-bulky these people are, even thought they can clean and jerk a truck.
Fencing, as we all know, requires speed and explosiveness primarily. Endurance is somewhat important, but it is secondary (it's only 9 minutes, and you have two breaks). Doing a lot of reps at a low weight, or just a lot of push ups, will not make you fast and explosive. Ultimately, you will be better off training at a higher weight, with fewer reps. Get a trainer who knows what they are doing and have them put together a program specific for your current fitness level now (for instance, you may not have the core strength for an unassisted squat), but which will help you get to your goals. Generally, don't listen only to your coach -- lots of great coaches don't have a clue when it comes to exercise science.

[dramamine]

I remember the first time I saw olympic weightlifting. I saw a guy clean and jerk more than twice his bodyweight, then drop the weight and do a backflip immediately afterwards.

Yeah, those guys are really too bulky for sports. Ben Johnson could parallel squat 600 pounds 3 times at a bodyweight of 175 and bench nearly 400 pounds. Tell him he's too bulky. It's all about the low reps and high weight, teaching your body to produce great amounts in force over short periods of time. Think about it - how long does a lunge take? Definately not as long as it takes you to do 10 reps of leg extensions. Which I'm sorry but I need to address once again, the leg extension IMO is the single worst exercise ever invented and should be removed from all gyms.

LEG EXTENSIONS (copied from my post in another thread):

Leg extensions put a great deal of stress on the PCL. They cause anterior translation of the femur because the hamstrings are not activated at all during the extension (this is bad news guys). The weight in a leg extension puts your knee under shearing force, not in a line along your leg. In a squat the weight is acting down the length of your leg while in a leg extension the pad is perpendicular to your shin. Not to mention the peak of the force applied during the leg extension is at the most vulnerable point for your ligaments and tendons (90 degrees).

Take a guy who can squat even a decent amount of weight (case in point: me) and take them over to a leg extension machine, they will probably be able to max it out for 10 reps their first time ever doing it. Take someone who only does leg extensions and ask them to squat a decent amount of weight, and they won't have the total body strength, the balance, or the flexibility to do it. Improving your relative strength (strength vs bodyweight), especially in the squat, deadlift and clean, will improve your explosiveness tremendously when combined with sprints and plyometrics.

I would also like to recommend that all fencers do a unilateral leg exercises as well. For example, single leg squats or reverse lunges with the front foot elevated. If you're anything like I used to be (still am, but working on it) your front thigh is around 2-3 inches bigger than your left, and you could benefit greatly from evening them out.

Squats all the way. Just get an olympic weight lifting coach (NOT a 6 week course personal trainer!!!!!!) to show you how to do them properly!!

This thread has some good info:

Exercise program?

[RebelFencer]

That thread is really good, thanks for pointing it out to me. I was kinda thinking about this today, would low reps high weight be better for fencing (squat-wise) than high reps lower weight. It seems that the higher weight lower reps would build shorter, more explosive muscles.

[dramamine]

Originally Posted by RebelFencer

That thread is really good, thanks for pointing it out to me. I was kinda thinking about this today, would low reps high weight be better for fencing (squat-wise) than high reps lower weight. It seems that the higher weight lower reps would build shorter, more explosive muscles.

I think it depends on why you weight train. Some people do it for endurance and injury prevention (in which case they'd be around 15-20 reps) whereas others do it for direct impact on performance (increase in explosiveness, flexiblity and relative strength) in which case you'd want to be probably between 1-5 and focusing on compound exercises almost exclusively.