Wild Women Fencing – what to do?

[banane16]

At the last training night, i fencend a new mid-30s women who has been away from fencing for years, but used to be quite good (she says). Indeed, she is very quick, but it seems that she can´t control herself in any way.

Myself being a (foil) beginner, she startet to annoyingly explain about my defence about 5 seconds after we startet – but it turned out soon that I was able to trash her with some binding actions I just learned and she did not know how to defend herself against. After 2 min she got rather angry, fighting in a very rude und uncontrolled and unsporting way. She gave me 3 dark blue bruises, each 2-3 inches, on the inner theigh, but still lost the bout that was watched by our coach. she left the strip very angry.

I am pretty sure that she will want to fight again next training night to make up for it. this means, if she found out what I did, I am most likely doomed. which will, very likely, end up with me being beaten black and blue – a guy had to go to the nurse after fighting her just recently.

I do not mind that much about the hurt – but when I went swimmig the next day, everybody was staring at me, and people started to talk about victims of domestic violence... This sounds funny, but I felt
rather bad about it, and my boyfriend got very angry (quite understandably).

So, what would you suggest for next training? Complaining to the coach? Avoiding her? Taking the risk, maybe a miracle happens and I can fight her again without going to the hospital?

[downunder]

just don't fence them. Its not like you have to, and if they're just violent then you don't need to destroy your technique trying to deal with it.

[cs3dswb]

I hate to say that she's probably not the only wild, crazy fencer that you will fence in your career from this point on. So i would suck up the pain fence her again and again learning exactly how to deal with wild crazy fencers. in foild crazy fencers can often be beaten by good distance.

Keep your distance and be constantly on the look out for an opening in her huge actions. Then hit and get out of the way. or just throw yourself at her hit her on target and move out the way before she can hit you

[oiuyt]

Originally Posted by banane16

and my boyfriend got very angry

I sure THAT helped quell the comments.... :)

-B

[banane16]

Well actually I could understand him: As we went swimming together, people seemed to assume that he was the one to blame for the bruises, and kept talking, throwing angry looks. I found that rather uncomfortable, too. I mean, I can not run around with a sticker on my bathing suit: "Don´t worry, I am a fencer, the bruises are somewhat intentionally?" I live in a small town, you see ...

[Mr T]

You've got two choices.

Dont fence her.

Or the next time you fence her, kick her up and down the strip like an uppity hooker, til she has more bruises than you.

[Valerio Versace]

I advise against fencing with the reckless hag.

[jeff]

Don't fence with her. There's no reason or obligation to fence with someone whose technique is so brutal as to consistently leave marks. If she's bruising you on the thigh, far from valid target area, she's either incompetent or doing it deliberately to intimidate or cause pain - in neither case should you participate as her punching bag. If you want to, fence until she starts doing it, and then say "I'm not going to fence you until you learn how to fence properly". Then walk off the strip, and ignore whatever she says.

[swordwench]

When I first started fencing foil, there was a kid probably a third my age who was significantly larger than I am. His style was (and still is) brutal, and he couldn’t bear being beaten by a woman. It was simply not fun fencing the boy, so for two years, I avoided it altogether. There were always other partners for the both of us – and if not, I found I would rather do footwork in the hallway. But I never told him why I wouldn’t fence him. That was dumb.

At my primary club, there is a big guy more my age who also – regrettably - hits harder than I would like. It’s epee, so it hurts a LOT more. I have to gauge my own ability on any given night – am I awake enough to keep my distance? If not, I’m going to get skewered. There are times when I just know it won’t be enjoyable and I’ll decline to fence (as nicely as I can) because unlike the Big Brutal Boy, this is a nice guy who is really working on his actions, but he’s not able to control them yet. I just can’t always deal with getting bruises that bleed through!

Meanwhile, there is another man who usually lands very gentle, lovely wrist shots that I often don’t even feel. A few weeks ago, he bruised my arm so badly in so many places I was afraid to go sleeveless. (Yes, I have been approached by complete strangers, as well as doctors, about my “domestic abuse” problem). I jokingly told him about it the next week, and he felt terrible. Not only about the bruises – those, I can handle. He realized that his point control and distance were just way off that night, and regretted being a menace on the strip. I know I shared some of the blame in not keeping my distance.

You can either avoid the woman altogether, which means she may not know why you won’t fence her (and will possibly never learn to fix the problems she’s having), or you can tell her tactfully that what she is doing is painful. Let your coach be the one to tell her that her actions are also ineffective. Any good coach will pick up on that pretty quickly!

[oiuyt]

Originally Posted by jeff

If she's bruising you on the thigh, far from valid target area, she's either incompetent or doing it deliberately to intimidate or cause pain

I have seen MANY cases of this where it was neither intentional nor incompetence. Hard hits occasionally happen, it's a part of the game. Sometimes they happen off-target (in fact, I'd say more often than on-target, given that hard hits generally occur when something unexpected happens or an action breaks down in the wrong way (both fencers collapse distance, etc.)).

That's a completely separate issue to whether or not IN THIS CASE the hard hits are intentional or whether or not banane should continue to be willing to practice with this particular clubmate.

-B

[jeff]

No disagreement on my part. My response to banane16 is only in this specific context of this one fencer exhibiting anger on the strip and bruising more than one fencer. Bruises and bumps, in general, are part of the game as you said.

[Mr Epee]

Originally Posted by banane16

So, what would you suggest for next training?

Strip to the waist and sell tickets.

[parrythis]

I have found that often, people don't know that they've got a problem. Usually, the best approach to such a situation is to bring the issue up with the individual. Before you bout with her again, simply say, "By the way, the last time we bouted, I ended up with some nasty bruises. Do you think you might want to work on landing your touches with a little more control?"

If that doesn't work or she gives you attitude over your comments, take it to the next level and ask your coach to watch her and intervene when he sees the problem. After all, your coach is responsible for everyone behaving in a safe manner.

If all that doesn't work and she's still hitting you too hard, stop the bout and say, "I'm sorry, but I can't fence you until you learn to exercise enough control that your touches don't leave bruises." Then walk away. Don't discuss it or argue the point. Ignore any "trash talk" she may respond with. Just stick to the facts. Don't get sucked into an emotional debate.

Also, be absolutely sure that you are not contributing to the situation by lunging into her attacks. Step back mentally and review the events with an impartial mind and see if the issue is entirely hers.

[smurfette]

Call her on it. Let her know that if she does not stop being so wild, no one will want to fence her in training. You could even enlist your coach -- after all, you say someone went to the "nurse" (?!). The fact that bruising is part of the game is, of course, important, but not when some one is clearly losing self-control in training. Otherwise, next time she pulls that kind of behavior, "flick" her really hard and flat across her lead shoulder and yell in her face. Or just don't fence the *****.

[ReverseLunge]

We can either do what works sometimes if we are lucky or we can do what works everytime if we are smart.

What I usually do with the insane untaimed female fencer is get her into bed. And that's where I humble her. So the next time we fence she will be thinking about what we did together and what I did to her and that's gonna make a big difference in her fencing and her overall attitude. You don't go wild while in the presense of someone who has dominated you.

[Fencergrl]

Originally Posted by ReverseLunge

You don't go wild while in the presense of someone who...

Or made you laugh hysterically...

[Dr. Pfleschbach]

If she is that wild then it's not going to help your fencing to bout with her, so I would politely decline and explain why.

Funny story: I fence epee, often against some really big guys, so I sometimes get some nasty bruises on my arms. I went to the doctor for an unrelated matter and when she saw the bruises she started asking me questions about when and why I started using heroin and said I should consider a twelve step program. I was laughing so hard I could hardly explain it to her.

[D+F+P=Hadouken!]

Am I the only one who NEVER gets bruised? Even when I fence against fencers who hit hard and are better than me, I dont get them.

[Parsifal]

You can't expect everyone to have (even) good distance management. Bruises come with the territory.

Get back in the ring, I say.

[Peach]

Originally Posted by D+F+P=Hadouken!

Am I the only one who NEVER gets bruised? Even when I fence against fencers who hit hard and are better than me, I dont get them.

Some of us bruise more easily than others. I go blue very easily. In fact, I can't take ibuprofen any more because it makes me bleed more easily, and I get bruises from gentle knocks or even (in my finger joints) from nothing at all.

My story is my gynecologist asking me gently, "I'm sorry, I have to ask. Who did this to you?"

My reply: "Well, this [pointing] was a fifteen-year-old boy, and this was a woman in her thirties, and this was a guy who is 80 years old--I'm a fencer, I'm a fencer!" as her face grew utterly horrified.

And the other story is my husband, at the beach, sitting as far away as he could from our (then-foilist, later epeeist) daughter (quarter-sized-and-up blue polka dots) and me (blue slash marks).