Fencing.Net - Your Guide to Fencing & Fencing Equipment

gtmac · 03-12-2006, 06:15 PM

...So Fencergal33 and I were chatting the other day while watching the Winter Olympics and we both had a great idea that I'm sure others of you have had as well...

Many Olympic sports have a plethora of events for pretty much the same sport (swimming, x-country skiing, speed skating, running). Why not add a new fencing event as a draw to help fencing keep its Olympic status, the "Fencing Triathlon".

A single fencer that fences all three weapons in a single event. It might go a little something like this:

The order goes Epee, Foil, Sabre.

--The Ironman
3 15-point 9-minute bouts one with each weapon.

Stamina and all around fencing ability are the key.

--The Sprint
A bout to 15 in 3 3-minute long periods of 5 points each. Weapons change at the end of a period or at 5 point intervals, whichever comes first.

Here a new strategy comes into play. If Sabre's your forte, do you stall defensively through Epee and Foil?

Comments? Thoughts? Please tweak away.

stealingophelia · 03-12-2006, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Poulet

It would be "disadvantageous" to be a primarily epee fencer under that system.

Originally Posted by Poulet
Thanks for quoting the entire post, which was already right there and then making a nearly entirely unintelligible post.

slowgraffiti515 · 03-12-2006, 07:39 PM

i think it sounds kinda neat...nothing i would be able to do but it would definatley be interesting to watch.

RebelFencer · 03-12-2006, 08:40 PM

It wouldn't work. For both you'd spend too much tim changing out body-cords, lame's, masks, etc.

gtmac · 03-12-2006, 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RebelFencer

It wouldn't work. For both you'd spend too much tim changing out body-cords, lame's, masks, etc.

I would think that vendors would love to have a new variety of products to sell that are designed for compatability for multiple weapons or are modular.

RebelFencer · 03-12-2006, 08:57 PM

Ok, let's pretend they somehow make a universal body cord. Even if that were the case then there would still be the lame' issue. The only way this would work would be if it were a team event with one person per weapon.

Epee Scherma · 03-12-2006, 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RebelFencer

It wouldn't work. For both you'd spend too much tim changing out body-cords, lame's, masks, etc.

I'm not fond of this idea either, but I don't think that'd be a problem. THe fencer could wear both cords, a saber lame, and a foil lame underneath, a saber mask. So the order would have to be saber foil epee. Should be pretty quick.

But I don't like the idea but I can't explain why. I guess I would just feel uncomfortable with any more events than the foil, epee,saber, or the epee in a pentathlon + team events. Really its more fencing than the IOC would probably ever want.

gtmac · 03-12-2006, 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RebelFencer

Ok, let's pretend they somehow make a universal body cord. Even if that were the case then there would still be the lame' issue. The only way this would work would be if it were a team event with one person per weapon.

The ONLY way? Big on innovation are you?

RebelFencer · 03-12-2006, 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Poulet

Foil lame. Lame-material sleeves that snap on.

Could even wear the lame for the epee, why not?

Wouldn't grounding be an issue in that case?

keropie · 03-12-2006, 10:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RebelFencer

Wouldn't grounding be an issue in that case?

Shouldn't create a grounding issue as the A line of the real (run to lames) is not ground.

As for order, I think you'd have a hard time going anything but saber, foil, epee, as the officiating (generally) gets less subjective as you move in that direction (I suppose you could swap saber and foil, but the reason the traditional dual meet ended with epee was to avoid subjective officiating making a deciding factor at the end of a meet).

But no, I doubt it would fly at all. As mentioned by Epee Scherma, it's just more fencing than the IOC wants. It's not like it gets TV share or real audience as it is, so they're not going to add more.

Morion · 03-12-2006, 11:34 PM

I'm still pulling for fencing on ice skates so we can be in the winter olympics also!

larkmaj · 03-12-2006, 11:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by keropie

Shouldn't create a grounding issue as the A line of the real (run to lames) is not ground.

It does create a grounding issue for the same reason you tape the tip of a foil. If the barrel is touching the lame when the tip is depressed then there is a connection between the tip and the blade (ground) no light.

Also, fencing doesn't have enough medals as it is. We have 10 and need 12 for the events that are currently being used (they're going to rotate each olympics, see related threads on this issue).

CvilleFencer · 03-12-2006, 11:57 PM

This would be a horrible idea IMHO for several reasons. The technical problems are not problems. I have been fencing with a "Unicord" using a modified epee cord and standard epee sockets on all my weapons for a while now. LP already has a mask fine for saber with a "zip off" bib that with a little work would be usable for this bastard "weapon" and if you put zippers on the inside of a foil lame to attach "sleeves" for saber you would be good to go.

Reasons I hate it are as follows:
1. Due to time constraints epee would most likely be one touch.
2. Fencers of this "weapon" would be jacks of all trades, masters of none and due to the mingling of weapon "disciplines" and an understandable sporting desire by the athletes in this weapon to focus on actions that "work" in all three, the fencing would look the same with slightly different target.
3. It would be way to easy for the OOC to say "well, you have all three weapons represented in this composite sport, lets drop those pesky individual and team weapons since no one cares about it anyway and we would much rather show a sport that gets us the pedophile/horny stay at home watching the tube looser viewers" and that would severely injure the sport.
4. Roach would see a new composite sport as a chance to make his utopian dream weapon of fencing in the round with no off targets in anything on wireless systsms wearing rigid plastic bags on our head with crowns of xmas lights and wearing full body lames made by a sole source company he owns stock in and anyone landing a success flick would be shot dead on the strip by Swiss snipers in the employee of the FIE.
5. Saber sucks.

In short, if you want to see all three weapons being fenced by people who are not very good at any of them I suggest you go to a ratings rally event somewhere that is having all weapons being fenced in one day at something like a D and under. Have fun with that. They have to pay me to get me to deal with that and even then I usually leave feeling like I got robbed...

I hope the above does not sound overly harsh as that is not my intention. Long weekend refereeing and I am tired/grumpy and not feeling well...

keropie · 03-13-2006, 04:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by larkmaj

It does create a grounding issue for the same reason you tape the tip of a foil. If the barrel is touching the lame when the tip is depressed then there is a connection between the tip and the blade (ground) no light.

I certainly interpreted this as a question about grounding for epee, not foil. As for foil, I'm assuming when fencing foil it would be using the foil circuit, so everything would be the same as we're currently used to. So no more or less grounding than currently in foil. Additionally, in epee the lame has no ground because it's not even part of the reel system (the epee cord doesn't run to the lame). I suppose if you were to run the C line to the lame it would be a mess, and I'm not at all sure how running the a line to both the weapon and the lame would work (probably oddly).

Epeecurean · 03-13-2006, 05:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morion

I'm still pulling for fencing on ice skates so we can be in the winter olympics also!

There's a newsreel clip of ice fencing in the British Pathe website archives.

larkmaj · 03-13-2006, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by keropie

I certainly interpreted this as a question about grounding for epee, not foil. As for foil, I'm assuming when fencing foil it would be using the foil circuit, so everything would be the same as we're currently used to. So no more or less grounding than currently in foil. Additionally, in epee the lame has no ground because it's not even part of the reel system (the epee cord doesn't run to the lame). I suppose if you were to run the C line to the lame it would be a mess, and I'm not at all sure how running the a line to both the weapon and the lame would work (probably oddly).

The lame doesn't need to be hooked up to anything. It acts as a conductor between the tip of the epee and the blade, most often the barrel. Try touching any piece of metal to both the weapon and the tip at the same time and depressing the tip, it will not register. It would be just like one of the wires was exposed to the weapon or something.

Amadeus · 03-13-2006, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RebelFencer

Ok, let's pretend they somehow make a universal body cord. Even if that were the case then there would still be the lame' issue. The only way this would work would be if it were a team event with one person per weapon.

Blue Gauntlet made a universal bodycord.

They had it at JOs

Valerio Versace · 03-13-2006, 11:28 AM

I'd rather get the WF team event back in the Olympics. It would be so much better than this crazy idea that it's not even funny.

keropie · 03-13-2006, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by larkmaj

The lame doesn't need to be hooked up to anything. It acts as a conductor between the tip of the epee and the blade, most often the barrel. Try touching any piece of metal to both the weapon and the tip at the same time and depressing the tip, it will not register. It would be just like one of the wires was exposed to the weapon or something.

I know I've seen plenty of ppl fence epee in lames (too lazy to change @ club) and not have any issues. Though I see what you're saying (of course). Hadn't really thought of it in those terms. Maybe just (most of the time) the lights on by the time the lame shorts blade to circuit? Dunno.

oiuyt · 03-13-2006, 03:04 PM

I believe it also depends on box type. IIRC there was a thread in the armory section recently that mentioned a specific manufacturer that implemented the anti-fraud-style circuitry in all three weapons such that a short to C (your own) doesn't block out touches in epee. Would mean the lame short wouldn't hurt anything.

Back on topic, 3W individual tournaments are something that I think is a fun local option, but not something I'd particularly push for above that level. And running three separate tournaments with composite results (large number of ways of handling that) seems a lot more practical than constantly swapping out equipment.

-B