Potential New Olympic Fencing Event

[Capt. Slo-mo]

Originally Posted by PeterGustafsson

For all people who like to ridicule in place of reasoning, and add threaddrift as an extra insult:
I sure miss the negative rep points option.

Peter, Peter, Peter...Lighten up! I know it's been what, six months? since you last saw the sun, but this dour, Calvinist attitude isn't working for you.

Occasionally people like to have some fun, play with ideas to absurdity. Here's a hint: It's OK! But if it'll keep you from grinding the tops off any more of your molars, let's get back to the original concept.

I suspect the "olympic" idea was never serious...but I think it has some merit for novel local meets, or demo events like the Duel in Vegas. Here's how I'd envision it working:

You draw up a tableau based on USFA ratings in each weapon. An "A" is worth 9 points, a "B" 7, a "C" 5, a "D" 3 and an "E" 1. Add the three ratings together, and stack the table. Seeding ties are resolved with flip of a coin.

I'd suggest the bout orders be: epee, foil, saber.

Originally Posted by RebelFencer

It wouldn't work. For both you'd spend too much tim changing out body-cords, lame's, masks, etc.

And every year, at the Ironman in Hawaii, the commentators are always complaining about how all the time to transition from one event to the other is totally dragging the sport down.

Take the challenge and make it a part of the competition. Each fencer has 90 seconds to transition between events...change weapons, body cords, lames. Anyone not ready at the "Fence" command gets a red card, and loses a point.

Just like the Ironman, organization and practice are the keys. Use the same bodycord for foil and saber. Have everything laid out for a quick lame/weapon/mask change.

Bouts are fenced to 10 points, one 3 minute bout, each event. Each bout is scored individually, and the three scores are added together. Total overall point accumulation wins the three weapon bout.

Oh, and in case of a tie? Both competitors place their off hands in the box of fire ants. Person who keeps hand in the longest advances to next round.

There you go, Peter...a reasoned, on-thread discussion. I'll await the glowing rep point.

[pigeonmeister]

Originally Posted by Dr. Pfleschbach

Actually, I overheard a serious discussion about fencing in a circle between some well regarded coaches at a recent NAC. The idea was that using wireless scoring boxes could revolutionize the sport of fencing.

Speaking of revolutionary ideas, there is an epee coach in the LA area that has held a few doubles tournaments where there are two fencers on each side. A touch against either opponent counts. If your partner receives five touches, they're out and you wind up fencing two opponents simultaneously. I didn't try it but the fencers who did said it was really fun. I doubt it'll make it to the Olympics, though.

I'd have thought that fencing in circles would seriously limit floor space!

I heard that there has been at least one 2 weapon fencing competition in the UK (in that each fencer has a foil in each hand) Could be an urban myth though.

Staged battles next?

[jBirch]

I like the idea of having competitors specifically fencing all three weapons in this format. I have no idea how to get the equipment to work, but it doesn't seem an insurmountable problem. I agree that changing clothes all the time would ruin the event. Fencing in the round is interesting but pointless.

As an alternative, run the class like a mini-team event. Points to 15, first to 5 sabre, stop, first to 10 epee, stop, first to 15 foil, finish. Yes, you could have one really strong foilist clean up, but you'd have the weapon that is most difficult to score individually with as the final, the second most difficult as the middle and the easiest as the first. You'd also have the weapon that is supposed to be the basis for the other two weighted more greatly.

Logistically, you would have to have a unified body cord and some sort of unified lame. The transition time between the weapons would have to be important somehow and I haven't the foggiest how to make that happen. The entire format of the event can't take longer then an individual weapon.

I think this would be interesting for a couple of reasons. First, the history of our sport has always been that the three weapons were part of a unified instruction system. Start with foil, then go epee, then go sabre. Second, the ability to fence all three weapons is an important discipline to instill in our up and coming fencers so that all three weapons are retained in the treatises. How many clubs are uni-weapon because the coach doesn't really know how to fence the other two? Third, all three weapons are interesting in their own way and showing the public all three in the same event would add more colour to the public perception of "fencing". Fourth, fencers are encouraged to know nothing about the other two weapons. Sabreurs fence sabre and know nothing about foil/epee. Same for foilists. Same for epeeists. Fencing all three in an event like this would stimulate more fencers to learn the other weapons.

Just some thoughts.

James.

[Capt. Slo-mo]

Actually, the clothes changing could be kept to a minimum. Run two body cords down the sleeve of the white jacket. Sew a little kangaroo pouch inside the wrist to hold the end plug of the unused cord, and a clip on the back to hold the ends of both body cords.

Start with epee...fence per usual.

Go to foil. Unplug epee cord, pull out foil/saber cord from sleeve pouch. Change weapon, pull on lame. Unplug reel cord connection, put in new cord, clip alligator to lame. Fence.

Go to saber. Change weapons, use same cord. Unclip foil lame, slide on sabre lame, reclip alligator to back of lame. Take off foil/epee mask, put on saber mask, connect mask cord. Fence.

90 seconds or less.

[Chafunkta]

Originally Posted by RebelFencer

Ok, let's pretend they somehow make a universal body cord. Even if that were the case then there would still be the lame' issue. The only way this would work would be if it were a team event with one person per weapon.

Alright, you wear a jacket, then on top of that, a foil lame, then on top of that, a sabre lame. Strip at the end of every round. PROBLEM SOLVED!!

Or, you could have tear-off sleeves for the sabre lame (to go into foil mode)and a pole at the end of the strip to make on-strip stripping really provocative!!

[KD5MDK]

Originally Posted by oiuyt

I believe it also depends on box type. IIRC there was a thread in the armory section recently that mentioned a specific manufacturer that implemented the anti-fraud-style circuitry in all three weapons such that a short to C (your own) doesn't block out touches in epee. Would mean the lame short wouldn't hurt anything.

-B

The point came up in a discussion with Dan Dechaine at Reno about epee fencers wearing sabre masks. I believe the statement was Favero and other common boxes could ground out, though Dan thought it unlikely, SG and one other whose name didn't stick with me would register the touch, and Triplette boxes would shock you regardless of equipment attached.

[KShan5[PrFC]]

Originally Posted by gtmac

...So Fencergal33 and I were chatting the other day while watching the Winter Olympics and we both had a great idea that I'm sure others of you have had as well...

Because there are just so many more Olympic medals to go around.....

[Capt. Slo-mo]

Yeah, for the other countries...

[BIND8!RUNAWAY!]

ya know you wouldn't have to change. for epee what difference does it make if your wearing a lame. And maybe something special could be devolped especially for this event that could slip over a saber lame so a tpuch wouldn't register on the arm while fencing foil. It could definetly work.

[Saber-Psycho]

Originally Posted by Poulet

Eliminating the men's and women's individual and team saber events would free up a few medals.

Oooh. I think we have our next director of pub-lic-i-ty!
That's brilliant, lets get rid of the fastest events! Not to mention the ones with the best results.
God, you're a genius.

[larkmaj]

Originally Posted by BIND8!RUNAWAY!

for epee what difference does it make if your wearing a lame.

We've already covered that, on some boxes it does matter, on some it doesn't. However, you could just tape the tip of the epee like a foil, though you do run into a small problem with the moving screws, but it shouldn't be an issue.

This may or may not be technically legal... but I would imagine the rules would be changed to accomodate such things.

[PeterGustafsson]

Hi!

Originally Posted by Capt. Slo-mo

Peter, Peter, Peter...Lighten up! I know it's been what, six months? since you last saw the sun, but this dour, Calvinist attitude isn't working for you.

It is not an attitude, it is a personality. (remember - I do epee!)

I moved south a few years ago, and am no considerably south of the polar circle, so I see the sun every day - the last week has been beautiful. It is just that I really do not like derisiveness and changing-the-subject. Ever. Under any circumstances what so ever. If I did like that sort of stuff, I would go to fencingsucks.

Originally Posted by Capt. Slo-mo

Oh, and in case of a tie? Both competitors place their off hands in the box of fire ants. Person who keeps hand in the longest advances to next round.

There you go, Peter...a reasoned, on-thread discussion. I'll await the glowing rep point.

So darn cloose! And you had to throw in the fire ant stuff to wreck it?


Have a nice time!

Peter Gustafsson

[cs3dswb]

Firstly you shouldn't do sabre last the refereeing could be controversial. The epee should be last as it has the least "dodgy" refereeing.

Secondly I reckon a tag team event could be fun.

[oiuyt]

Originally Posted by larkmaj

We've already covered that, on some boxes it does matter, on some it doesn't. However, you could just tape the tip of the epee like a foil, though you do run into a small problem with the moving screws, but it shouldn't be an issue.

Heh. Yeah, can't imagine ANY problems occurring when tape adhesive gets into the tip mechanism on an epee.... :eyeroll:

-B

[shlepzig]

The format sounds like fun for a club tournament. Where you have a limited number of people who are all willing to spend the day in some good multi-weapon fun. I'm not even sure you could get official USFA approval for the event because it would be impossible to offer ratings or whatever afterwards.

The time issues between different rounds, I cant imagine that any fencer accomplished enough to fence all 3 weapons passably can't change a lame, mask and bodycord in 90 seconds.

I would suggest the following.

1. Preceded with pool format 3 rounds (long day, this is the killer), one for each weapon. Seed according to all 3 rounds.

2. In the DE rounds Allow one fencer to call the first weapon (chosen by coin toss) and the other fencer to choose the 2nd. Change gear during the period break, and give people a few more seconds to collect their thoughts.

3. Call all 3 periods at 5 touches, so that someone who is great at one weapon can dominate the final 14 touches at the end of the bout after just managing not to get hit in the previous periods. In the unlikely case of a tie, fence the tie-breaker with the weapon at hand.

All in all good clean fun. Not Olympic sport.

Shlep.

[PiratePeter]

the event should be foil, pistol shooting, epee, some martial art, sabre, bow and arrow shooting.

[oiuyt]

Originally Posted by PiratePeter

the event should be foil, pistol shooting, epee, some martial art, sabre, bow and arrow shooting.

Or pistol shooting, epee, horseback riding, swimming, and then some running.

-B

[bigdawg2121]

Wow...reading this thread has been thoroughly amusing. Thank you all for adding levity to my bibliographing....

I would agree though that this sounds like it could be a fun even for local tournaments. I doubt I'd ever want to stay and watch it, but it could be fun. I think it would be funny at a national level b/c most people don't fence more than one (maybe two) weapons even remotely near well so it would give us a chance to test the "good fencing is good fencing" school of thought.

[tbryan]

Originally Posted by oiuyt

Or pistol shooting, epee, horseback riding, swimming, and then some running.

-B

Now, I could imagine that as an Olympic sport!

[tbryan]

Originally Posted by bigdawg2121

I would agree though that this sounds like it could be a fun even for local tournaments.

Aw. You're just saying that because you could probably win it no matter what order we fenced the weapons.