Fencing.Net - Your Guide to Fencing & Fencing Equipment

Warik · 03-12-2006, 03:07 PM

I've been fencing saber for about 6 months so I am still a beginner. I fence 1-2 times a week and go to tournaments whenever they are local, which is about every 2-3 months.

Right now I'm using a standard beginner cotton jacket and some nylon pants from Blade which are kinda baggy since I bought them when I was a size 36 and now I'm a 34.

I don't know if the frequency at which I fence would justify me spending $250 for the high quality 350N stuff, particularly the Leon Paul equipment offered on this site... although I do plan to continue participating in the sport.

How long could I expect it to last? How well does it stretch to accommodate growing & shrinking in the waist and chest?

Is the extra cost really worth it for a fencer like me?

Thank you.

Mr Epee · 03-12-2006, 03:15 PM

350N should be the minimum requirement...

Are you asking about the 800N material that is required for FIE certification?

achilleus · 03-12-2006, 04:03 PM

Well, here's the thing...

I fenced for the first year in an unrated uniform. I had an FIE mask, but my jacket and pants were house brand, cheap, unrated stuff. It lasted, and I survived. After a year, I was training hard, and competing seriously I upgraded to FIE (800n) level gear, and I will never go back. Ever.

I mean, there is very little chance you will get injured with a broken blade, but if you do, it can be a very serious injury.

That said, LP isn't the only vendor on the market, here's an example of three:

The Fencing Post has great deals on Uhlmann 350n uniforms which would total less than $200. Uhlmann is one of the best overall brands available.

There are also other companies, like Triplette, whom I don't recommend, but advertises (on their old site) a uniform that is rated above 350n for around $100.

Or Blade. Another company I don't recommend, but which advertises a 350n uniform for under $175.

You can also cruise Ebay, which often has some cheap deals on used uniforms...

So the answer to your question is, you'll most likely be fine in your gear. You most likely won't need anything better. However, if you, like most people want to take every reasonable precaution and get some better gear, there are affordable places to look besides just LP.

Zilverzmurfen · 03-12-2006, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warik

Should I spend the extra $$$ for a 350N Jacket & Pants?

No. You should spend it on 800 N kit instead.

RebelFencer · 03-12-2006, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zilverzmurfen

No. You should spend it on 800 N kit instead.

Ahh, brains as well as beauty.

telkanuru · 03-12-2006, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zilverzmurfen

No. You should spend it on 800 N kit instead.

Amen.

Warik · 03-12-2006, 06:06 PM

Well to answer Mr. Epee's question, no I wasn't talking about the 800n FIE gear.
I have the cheapy unrated material now because it came with my beginner's set (and I bought the pants separately for very cheap).

I did look at the 800n FIE gear but it's much higher than what I'm looking to spend at this time. Although I know it offers the ultimate in protection, it's only required for international competition and I imagine it will be a few years before I get involved in those, if ever.

However... I did look at the 800n gear on FencingPost that achilleus mentioned and with their 20% online discount it would be about $300 for the
UHLMANN WORLD CUP FIE. 800N uniform, which is only about $60 more than I was originally looking to spend. The "OLYMPIA" version is $500... does anybody have experience with either and can tell me if there is a difference? The "OLYMPIA" says that it is more "stretchy" - will I not be happy with the comfort level of the "WORLD CUP" version, or will anything better than what I have now definitely feel like an improvement?

The Uhlmann 350N gear is priced very nicely too... and I can use the 20% savings to get my name stenciled on.

Great... originally I was having trouble deciding between a new set of cheap gear vs. 350N gear. Now you guys have me trying to decide between 350N and 800N FIE.

RebelFencer · 03-12-2006, 06:10 PM

It doesn't matter if you're looking to compete internationally, 800N is the top gear. It offers the most protection and usually is made much better than the 350N. They last quite awhile, a guy at my club replaced his after 8-10years of use. If you can afford it go FIE, if you can't, go 350N and if you can't afford that then save up.

achilleus · 03-12-2006, 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warik

Well to answer Mr. Epee's question, no I wasn't talking about the 800n FIE gear.
I have the cheapy unrated material now because it came with my beginner's set (and I bought the pants separately for very cheap).

I did look at the 800n FIE gear but it's much higher than what I'm looking to spend at this time. Although I know it offers the ultimate in protection, it's only required for international competition and I imagine it will be a few years before I get involved in those, if ever.

However... I did look at the 800n gear on FencingPost that achilleus mentioned and with their 20% online discount it would be about $300 for the
UHLMANN WORLD CUP FIE. 800N uniform, which is only about $60 more than I was originally looking to spend. The "OLYMPIA" version is $500... does anybody have experience with either and can tell me if there is a difference? The "OLYMPIA" says that it is more "stretchy" - will I not be happy with the comfort level of the "WORLD CUP" version, or will anything better than what I have now definitely feel like an improvement?

The Uhlmann 350N gear is priced very nicely too... and I can use the 20% savings to get my name stenciled on.

Great... originally I was having trouble deciding between a new set of cheap gear vs. 350N gear. Now you guys have me trying to decide between 350N and 800N FIE.

The price difference between the 350n and the 800n is so close, that I've never owned 350n stuff. I just went straight to the 'world cup' model...

The Olympia is far more comfortable, but the world cup, being FIE is definitely and upgrade over what you currently have. Of course, funds are the limiting factor...

keropie · 03-12-2006, 11:02 PM

I have both the World Cup and Olympia. The Olympia is definitely nicer, but clearly more expensive (as you noticed). I don't notice the World Cup being uncomfortable, and I use it for practice 4-5 days a week. I have no problems recommending it. Mind you, the 'basic' equipment didn't bother me, either. I was fine with it.

The FIE will, however, end up being cheaper / year of use if you keep with the sport/don't grow out of it/etc.

D+F+P=Hadouken! · 03-12-2006, 11:09 PM

Olympia is good, but not good enough to justify the price. I think World cup is the best deal.

Warik · 03-13-2006, 12:10 AM

Well I decided to get the FIE gear but am now deciding between WC and Olympia. keropie and DFP have vouched for the WC and DFP said that the Olympia is not that much better than the WC to justify the price.... does anyone else who has tried either uniform have an opinion?

Also, I fence almost exclusively sabre... should the fact that I won't be seeing point touches as often as a foilist or epeeist factor into my decision on getting the WC or Olympia?

Is the only advantage the Olympia has over the WC the comfortability? Will they both offer the same protection and last equally as long? Regardless... the comfort of the WC will definitely be better than my beginner unrated stuff that I have now, right?

I'd also want to get my name on these... do you all recommend I have FencingPost stencil them for me or should I get one of those embroidiered patches from ProPrintWear and sew them on myself?

Thanks!!!

shango · 03-13-2006, 12:55 AM

If you fence sabre, then what would be the point of doing that? If you want it for identification purposes, then just write your name on the tag or sew a patch that contains the necessary information.

larkmaj · 03-13-2006, 01:02 AM

Some may disagree with me, but if you fence mainly sabre then I would consider getting the 350N and spending the money on a nice Lame as they can be pricey. I would think the difference in protection for the basic uniform is not as important for sabre (though I could be wrong). You want to get a nice lame that will last you a long time for sabre.

Warik · 03-13-2006, 01:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by larkmaj

Some may disagree with me, but if you fence mainly sabre then I would consider getting the 350N

Don't I need FIE 800N for anything above the local level as far as competition goes, though?

HDG · 03-13-2006, 01:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warik

Don't I need FIE 800N for anything above the local level as far as competition goes, though?

In what country do you fence?

If US, no; you don't even need 350N.

Warik · 03-13-2006, 01:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HDG

If US, no; you don't even need 350N.

I fence in the US... I thought you needed 800N FIE for something like the NAC. I don't have any plans to fence competitively internationally... but if I ever did get that good and could afford to fly around the world and compete, I could afford to go all out on some new gear at that time.

If the safety factors surrounding sabre would make a 350N sufficient then I would definitely want to get a 350N and spend the savings on a 1600N mask and a good lame when the one I already have kicks the bucket. I am however planning on getting an electric epee to use at the club whenever there are no other sabre fencers around (which happens often). Should that tip the scales in the direction of 800N FIE?

epeeisky · 03-13-2006, 01:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warik

If the safety factors surrounding sabre would make a 350N sufficient then I would definitely want to get a 350N and spend the savings on a 1600N mask and a good lame when the one I already have kicks the bucket. I am however planning on getting an electric epee to use at the club whenever there are no other sabre fencers around (which happens often). Should that tip the scales in the direction of 800N FIE?

Almost every jacket out there on the market is 350N as it is the bare minimum requirement. I have used a 350N TCA jacket for almost 1.5 years and it has been fine for epee. While the FIE jackets would give me more protection the cost effetiveness is not there because I do not fence at a high level. I instead put my money into a good quality mask to protect my face. My advice would be to get a better mask for saber.

keropie · 03-13-2006, 04:27 AM

Yeah, except saber masks fail for conductivity purposes, too, so many of those $250+ masks only last a year or two, also, then get relegated to practice use only. As for jacket, etc., you don't need FIE equipment for anything short of World Cup here in the States. Not for NACs, not for Nationals, etc. If you decide to get FIE stuff, I fairly strongly recommend the Olympia knickers if you have a deep lunge (that's the one thing I really noticed on the stretchiness), but I really do like my Olympia jacket better than my World Cup. But if you're really starting out and/or cost is an issue, I'd probably just end up with some sort of stretch nylon uniform, a decent lame (Uhlmann, Allstar, Leon Paul are the 'better' brands, better tailoring etc. in general, Triplette lames last forever, though not cut so well, I'm sure Blue Gauntlet is fine, etc.). Shoes are nice, too, if you don't already have some you like, and decent body cords aren't cheap, etc. I wouldn't rush out and buy FIE stuff unless you really have sufficient money. You'll spend plenty on saber equipment as is.

HTH

achilleus · 03-13-2006, 06:27 AM

There are a number of things to mention here...

1) Not all uniforms are a minimum of 350n. In fact, unless the item you are wearing has a tag mentioning it's strength, I would suspect it hasn't been tested.

Someone, a while back (Cville, I believe), posted the ratings of some jackets they had lying around, and none came close to 350n. This included a Triplette jacket. You'll find unrated jackets from AFS, Blade, Blue Gauntlet, Physical Chess, Absolute, The Fencing Post, Triplette, etc...

In the US, their is no minimum requirement, so anything goes.

2) The stretch of the Olympia is great. A while back, the world cup model had the annoying habit of splitting if you were fond of long lunges. As a result, the word on the street was get the Olympia pants, and anything goes on the jacket. I haven't heard of this issue in a while, but I have to tell you, it's hard to go back to the world cup. The Olympia is lighter, stretchier, and more comfortable. They both provide the same protection rate, and they are both quality uniforms...

3) The only person I have ever seen run through, was a sabre fencer. In the leg. Not a pretty sight. Again, the chances of you getting puntured are slim, but if it happens, you'll be thankful for all the protection you have. And, forking over money now, will certainly be cheaper than if you take a blade in the lung.

4) Sabre lames vary in price and durability. Many buy two, one cheap one for practice, and one nice for tournaments. It makes the lames last longer...