Epee gripping positions

[D+F+P=Hadouken!]

Epee gripping question....

Ok, I have seemingly developed a slightly different way to holding my visconti grip. Instead of just putting the thumb on top and index finger on the bottom, I have my thumb on top, index finger on the side, and middle finger on the bottom. I feel it gives better finger control. Is there anything inherently wrong with holding the grip this way?

[RITFencing]

I've tried doing the same thing a bit, and while it does feel like I'm getting a bit more control, it's also harder to resist beats to the outside of my blade.

[thud]

I hold that way when the grip is too tight or uncomfortable in some way. You definately lose some power, though I don't notice any benefit to my point control. For me it is simply less painful.

[noodle]

i hold it similarly. i've used it like that for so long, though, that i don't really notice a difference in power.

[noodle]

also note that when i was taught the position, it was referred to as holding it german style. don't know how valid that is, but there you ahve it.

[keropie]

It will certainly change the focus of which fingers do what in controlling the point. It would seem to me (aside from power loss, since essentially your pointer finger will be removed from the power portion of the grip as it's no longer pinching anything) that you put your pointer finger in a somewhat dangerous position. I held my foils like for a while, but ended up getting them smashed into the guard (less of an issue in epee, but...) and just bent awkwardly a fair amount. I certainly don't do it anymore.

HTH

[Spike327]

I have bad luck with weapons, and a few times I've had to finish a bout with a right-handed weapon (in my left hand). Those times, I turned the weapon 90 degrees counter-clockwise and held it exactly as you described. It actually works pretty well, considering it's wrong-handed. I don't like the way that grip feels on a left-handed weapon, though, too much loss in power.

Maybe I should fence Hendrix-style, right handed grip turned upside down? I dunno.

[DHCJr]

I do have a question. When you say you have the index finger on the side, it is straight?

[D+F+P=Hadouken!]

Originally Posted by DHCJr

I do have a question. When you say you have the index finger on the side, it is straight?

Yeah, I guess.

[Valerio Versace]

I think you should seriously give the french grip a try. I don't know how many people fence with a french grip or how is it thought in the US... but if your game focuses mainly on distance control, fleches and stop hits, you could try to switch and start working on disengages and remises too.
I've seen quite a few fencers who istinctively tend to wield a pistol grip that way and then switch to the french grip with surprising results.
In fact, the position of the hand remains somewhat similar: index to the side, pommel in your palm and thumb on top...

[tbryan]

Originally Posted by DHCJr

I do have a question. When you say you have the index finger on the side, it is straight?

Maybe I'm not picturing this correctly. How do you keep your index finger straight and keep your thumb within 2 cm of the bell guard?

[Valerio Versace]

Originally Posted by tbryan

Maybe I'm not picturing this correctly. How do you keep your index finger straight and keep your thumb within 2 cm of the bell guard?

It can be done. You should watch Munzone (the U20 European champion) fencing... sometimes, during a bout, he pushes his bell guard a bit forward with his fingers and grips his epee just like that.

[D+F+P=Hadouken!]

Its sorta frenchish, I guess. I use it because it helps me control the point better. I use the pistol grip because I like to flick and do blade takes.

[Valerio Versace]

Originally Posted by D+F+P=Hadouken!

Its sorta frenchish, I guess. I use it because it helps me control the point better. I use the pistol grip because I like to flick and do blade takes.

So you can flick and do blade takes while keeping the index finger extended along the side of the pistol grip better than you could do it with a french grip?
If you constantly grip it that way, I think you're probably better off with a french.

[keropie]

Originally Posted by tbryan

Maybe I'm not picturing this correctly. How do you keep your index finger straight and keep your thumb within 2 cm of the bell guard?

It would at least be questionable, I suppose, whether or not you had to do so, as the rule says the extremity of the thumb must be withing two cm when completely extended:

Originally Posted by USFA RULES m.4.6

(b) When the hand occupies this one position on the grip,
the extremity of the thumb when completely extended
must not be more than 2 cm from the inner surface of
the guard.

Though of course if you start letting people hold a given grip in different ways, how do you enforce:

Originally Posted by USFA RULES m.4.6

If the grip (or glove) includes any device or attachment or
has a special shape (orthopaedic) which fixes the position
of the hand on the grip, the grip must conform to the
following conditions.
(a) It must determine and fix one position only for the
hand on the grip.

?
Clearly there must be some leeway, or there would be no legal orthopedic grip (I'm sure we hold the grip somewhat differently from one another, or at the very least could). Yay (once again) for less than perfectly precise rules.

[DHCJr]

Originally Posted by D+F+P=Hadouken!

Yeah, I guess.

As tbryan said, I also have a problem picturing this. I don't know about your hand, but there is no way I could have my index finger straight on the side, while keeping my thumb within 2cm of the inside of the guard.

[Mr Epee]

There are two primary ways to hold an orthopedic grip... both difficult to explain with out demonstration, or photos, but both have to do with the positioning of the thumb (straight along the tang vs. bent with only the pad of the thumb in contact). There have been very good fencers who do both.

Ideally, there will be a small pocket between your palm and the backside of the handle.

I personally utilize the bent thumb, and generally hold it so that the thumb rests more on the edge of the grip vs. squarely on the grip... it's a personal perference.

sometimes changing the style of grip will give you a different feel that is good to play around with - particularly if you're having one of those days where you're just not "feeling it".
Changing your

[telkanuru]

Originally Posted by Valerio Versace

..but if your game focuses mainly on distance control, fleches and stop hits, you could try to switch and start working on disengages and remises too.
I've seen quite a few fencers who istinctively tend to wield a pistol grip that way and then switch to the french grip with surprising results.

I resemble that remark...

[KD5MDK]

Does the rule require that your thumb must be fully extended/2cm from the guard, or just that when extended in the holding position, it is 2cm?

[keropie]

It's quoted 4 posts above yours... O.o